With John the Evangelist squeezing past Phoebe 52% to 48%, in a tighter race than predicted by most penitential pundits, the first battle of the Saintly Sixteen is set. John will face Peter in a matchup of Biblical titans.
Today, Mary of Egypt faces Richard Hooker as the 3rd century touches up against the 16th. Impossible to compare these two saintly souls, you cry? This is madness, you declare? Of course it is! Lent Madness! Also, just wait…
In the meantime, we wanted to take a moment to again thank all eleven of our 2018 Celebrity Bloggers. Not all of them have yet had a saint thrust into the glare of the Lent Dome in these early days of Lent. But if you’re wondering just who they all are, click on the Celebrity Bloggers tab.
Mary of Egypt
Mary of Egypt is unique among female saints. She is not described as young or beautiful. She is not wealthy or educated, and she does not have important connections. She is not martyred, and she is not a virgin. She does not reject her family. Instead of finding a male mentor or teacher, Mary teaches a famously pious monk about true humility.
Mary was born in Egypt in the third century before moving to Alexandria at the tender age of twelve. The earliest accounts of her life report that she was a prostitute. Some time later, she heard of a pilgrimage to Jerusalem to venerate the cross. She sailed for Jerusalem, using her body as payment for the journey. Upon arriving at the church, a powerful force would not let her enter. She realized that her sins prevented entry. She repented, and the Virgin Mary appeared and forgave her. In that moment, Mary of Egypt renounced the world.
Legend has it that while at the church, Mary was given three coins with which she purchased three loaves of bread. She took those loaves across the Jordan River and lived off them for forty-seven years until the monk Zosimus found her. When he happened upon her, she was naked, her body blackened and burned by the sun. She had not had the eucharist in all her time in the desert so she asked Zosimus to return the following Easter with communion.
When he returned, he found Mary standing across the Jordan. She made the sign of the cross and walked across the water. After partaking of the sacrament, she walked across the river and returned to the wilderness.
The next year, Zosimus returned to the Jordan but did not find her. He went to the place where they first met and found her body. Written in the sand was a request to bury her. Zosimus tried but could not dig in the hard ground. A gentle lion then approached, and Zosimus asked the lion to help dig a suitable grave. The lion complied, and Zosimus buried Mary—and then returned to his monastery, glorifying God.
Collect for Mary of Egypt
O God, by whose grace your servant Mary of Egypt, kindled with the flame of your love, became a burning and a shining light in your Church: Grant that we also may be aflame with the spirit of love and discipline, and walk before you as children of light; through Jesus Christ our Lord, who lives and reigns with you, in the unity of the Holy Spirit, one God, now and for ever. Amen.
Richard Hooker
Presbyterians have John Calvin. Lutherans have Martin Luther. Methodists have John Wesley. For Anglicans, the name is Richard Hooker. One of the most influential Anglican thinkers, Richard is credited with creating the theological foundation of scripture, tradition, and reason. His approach to theology has traditionally been regarded as the beginning of the Anglican via media (or middle way) between Roman Catholicism and Protestantism.
Born in 1553/54 near Exeter, England, Richard became a fellow at Corpus Christi College in Oxford in 1577 and was ordained a priest two years later. After a few years serving as a tutor and a preacher, Richard became Master of the Temple Church in London, a prominent pulpit at the time. He later served churches in Boscombe, Salisbury, and Bishopsbourne.
When a controversy erupted with the Puritans, Richard published his magnum opus, Laws of Ecclesiastical Polity. The book offered a critique of Puritanism and a defense of the Church of England and The Book of Common Prayer. In his book, Richard articulated seven forms of law—from eternal law to ecclesiastical law. He pointed out that minor theological disagreements were adiáfora—a thing indifferent—to God. What was more important to Richard was the piety of the person or people involved.
Richard’s treatises continue to be foundational to Anglican thought today, and his works are credited with influencing not only theology but also political theory and English prose.
He died on November 3, 1600, while serving as rector of a parish near Canterbury. He is buried in the chancel of Saint Mary the Virgin, Bishopsbourne, and his feast day is celebrated on November 3.
Collect for Richard Hooker
O God of truth and peace, you raised up your servant Richard Hooker in a day of bitter controversy to defend with sound reasoning and great charity the catholic and reformed religion: Grant that we may maintain that middle way, not as a compromise for the sake of peace, but as a comprehension for the sake of truth; through Jesus Christ our Lord, who lives and reigns with you and the Holy Spirit, one God, for ever and ever. Amen.
Mary of Egypt vs. Richard Hooker
- Richard Hooker (73%, 5,652 Votes)
- Mary of Egypt (27%, 2,100 Votes)
Total Voters: 7,752
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Mary of Egyp all the way.
*Egypt.
A little too much coffee this morning.
Why did you choose her?
I learned about her last fall in Early Christian History here at General Theological Seminary and well, there is something about her that resonated with me and perhaps it was also the fact that the icon I was shown has here having purple hair. Who did you choose?
For some reason, when I read Mary’s story, I started crying. There was something about the way David described her paying for the voyage to Jerusalem with her body that made me recognize that God uses extraordinary means to get us where She wants us.
Love this.
I also love this…
She is my Confirmation Saint.
I voted for Mary of Egypt because she is a “Mary” and lived in “Egypt”.
Yes! Works for me Oliver.
Hi Oliver!
Good Morning Oliver!
Oliver, I am a chaplain and our house cat is named Oliver. I think you would love him. I bet he would vote for Mary, too. Btw, he says Meow.
I chose Richard Hooker this morning because “He pointed out that minor theological disagreements were adiáfora—a thing indifferent—to God. What was more important to Richard was the piety of the person or people involved.” This resonates with me.
I agree, Michelle.
Absolutely, Michelle. We spend too much time on minutia sometimes and forget the important things, like people.
Well said. This is what resonated with me as well.
Me, too. What a world it would be if we could all respect each other in that manner.
I second Michelle!
I agree wholeheartedly.
Yes!
Me too, Michelle
I agree
I agree Michelle. And his influence on English prose was a factor in my decision.
I agree. I am adding “adiafora” to my vocabulary. I useful word to have at hand!
Hooker’s adiáfora is as needed in our day as his day to bring harmony to a polarized culture. So I went with him rather than Mary of Egypt. She may have started out unexceptional, but her turn to remote isolation seemed to serve no one.
Agreed. We needn’t be so picky.
Exactly.
Not everyone can be a St. Hooker. Most of us are saints, hookers or otherwise. The hymn which says there’s no reason, no not the least why I can’t be one too — Mary.
And today I changed my pale purple nails to dark purple nails. In honor of saints and hookers and Hookers too.
Living in the Diocese of Salisbury, it has to be Richard Hooker for me!
Voting early today – easy choice for me this time – Richard Hooker, champion of the BCP!
Like!
Anyone who defended the Middle Way against Calvinism will probably have my vote.
This comment section needs a “Like” button for posts like this.
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Neither one of these two really moved me this morning. Mary of Egypt’s story is just a little too unbelievable, and since I’m not Episcopalian, Richard Hooker didn’t really speak to me, either. I voted for Mary of Egypt because: girl power! I think this one is just a place holder; I don’t expect either of them to advance very far in the competition.
Try us, you may like us!
The Episcopal Church welcomes you!
Hey I had to vote for Mary of Egypt because my mother’s name is Mary and my great-great grandmother Amalia is from Egypt!
I’m a great fan of Mary of Egypt (powerful Lenten story) but a greater fan of “Mr. Anglican”, Richard Hooker. John the Evangelist, Charles 1 & Wm Laud, now Richard Hooker, foundations stones of who we are as Anglicans.
Mary of Egypt. I love that she “is unique among female saints. She is not described as young or beautiful. She is not wealthy or educated, and she does not have important connections. She is not martyred, and she is not a virgin.” All of the ways that women’s worth is measure in this world–youth, beauty, money, connections, education, sacrifice, virginity–she’s “worthless.” But even though she didn’t measure up to the world’s standards, she was an example of faith and how God can use anyone. I love how she defies stereotypes and expectations and simply served the Lord.
I agree, Erica. That is precisely what moved me about her story.
Haven’t decided yet, but I love your reasoning!
I agree! I chose Mary of Egypt.
Well said! Thank you. Ditto!
Did she? Just serve the Lord, I mean. Who knows? She’s was out in the wilderness most of her life, and no one saw her. My best guess is she went a little nuts and might have been better served if someone had just taken her in and cared for her (you know, like served the Lord) instead of just leaving her out there to die. Like the way we leave the homeless in our streets.
Amen. I wholeheartedly agree. There are, and have always been, many in our midst who need us yet we look the other way, either to “let them follow their own choices” or simply avoid what we feel is distasteful. Maybe if she had been praying in someone’s home she could have been a model of faithful devotion? Sorry, not to criticize, only to support caring for those less fortunate.
Yes-wonderfully put.
Love your reasoning! I also voted for her, but your reasons are articulated better than mine.
Yes, Margaret, I completely agree. Mary, who had lived a life that prevented her from entering the church, demonstrated an incredible force of faith and perseverance, as did many of those whom Christ healed. Her faith set her free. She sets an excellent example for us , to embrace hope no matter how hopeless, to embrace God’s grace when we feel the least deserving. Mary has my vote.
I felt this story lay a little too close fable without a great deal of substantial support.
Yes, Erica, I completely agree. Mary, who had lived a life that prevented her from entering the church, demonstrated an incredible force of faith and perseverance, as did many of those whom Christ healed. Her faith set her free. She sets an excellent example for us , to embrace hope no matter how hopeless, to embrace God’s grace when we feel the least deserving. Mary has my vote.
i think that mary seems pretty cool
Mary of Egypt! She lived in a desert with three loaves of bread. And a lion buried her! C’mon! She’s so cool.
I agree!
Yeah! Way to go, Pailet., I totally agree.
I love the friendly lion ending too.
Hooker merely because the idea of a “gentle lion” helping to burry a body sounds like a made up fairy tale.
Yes! Like
Have you not heard of Aslan?
Big Brother tells me I already said this but he’s WRONG! Didn’t. Have you not heard of Aslan, Steve?
Well it turns out that it looks like I did but appearances can be deceiving.
Mary, prostitute saint. Mary, sustained by God even in the desert with a bread others did not understand. Mary, far from home and alone, yet with a faith strong enough to walk as Christ walked–even on the water. Mary, yearning for the bread of heaven.
Nice, Alyssa!
Hmmm….. I like your reasoning, Alyssa.
You said it well, Erica.
We owe so much to Hooker. As to Mary, even if one takes the whole wild story at face value it’s not clear to me what Zosimus gained from their encounters by way of instruction.
Mary’s story touched my heart, but I would have hoped she would have shared her inspiring testimony with more than a single wandering monk. The beautifully written collect for Richard clinched it, especially, “Grant that we may maintain that middle way, not as a compromise for the sake of peace, but as a comprehension for the sake of truth.” That’s one of the main reasons I joined the Episcopal Church, and now I know who to thank.
Ha! Exactly the line of text that grabbed my heart… and my vote!
Yet, just for the sake of argument, many have been touched by her story. And Luke is full of Jesus’ parables that remind us that even one lamb, one lost coin is as important as the rest.
I’m just going to agree whole heartedly with your every word. I love the image of redemption coming out of Egypt with Mary. As an artists and poetry it paints a vivid picture for my heart. However, My passion for the Episcopal church has continually grown as the hope for this sad, polarized world. It exemplifies the possibility of the middle was. A church that challenges us to live the love of Christ rather than pets or pokes us. A church that does not expect you to leave your brains at the front door of the church….oops! I’m climbing down off of my soap box now! With humble thanks to Hooker for lighting the way.
Mary’s story moved me, especially her inability to enter the church before cleansing her sins.
I’m voting for Mary because Hooker doesn’t need my vote and the painting(s) you found for her is fabulous.
I’m with Michele. Richard Hooker’s pointing out that “minor theological disagreements were adiáfora—a thing indifferent—to God. What was more important to Richard was the piety of the person or people involved.” This resonated with me, also. The story of Mary was difficult to accept as truth.
I agree completely, Kathy M. I am grateful for the “three-legged stool” of scripture, reason and tradition, and I am grateful beyond words to have found a home at last in The Episcopal Church. If only we all accepted that minor theological disagreements are a matter of indifference to God.
Yes, Kathy M! Richard Hooker had great influence and, while interesting, Mary’s tale is way far out and rather unbelievable.
Mary of Egypt. For whatever reason, her story spoke to me. I think I agree with Pailet!
I agree with Pailet. When people lived so long ago, all we know about them is cool stories and maybe their names. There was a woman named Mary who retreated to the desert and lived by herself for many years. Very cool.
Richard Hooker for via media. Whether you are Anglican , Episcopalian or neither, finding the Middle Way and learning to live in Christian community despite our differences (Roman Catholic / Protestant; evangelical – conservative / social justice liberal; red / blue) seems to be a good thing… especially during these times.
Yes, I know the mix of English political theory and religion has not always lead to good thing and some find the BCP not inclusive enough, but on the flip-side I can not bring myself to vote for a female of fantastical fables, just because she was a woman.
Here here!
Much as Mary is an inspirational figure and that I would like to support a woman, her story is veiled in myth and superstition, whereas what Hooker did for Anglicans and thereby Episcopalians is undeniable, incontrovertible, and essential. We would not be who we are without him. Thus, sorry, Mary.
Surprised the vote is so lopsided, but it looks as though reason (embodied in Richard Hooker) is winning the day against the charming and profound tale of St. Mary of Egypt. I voted for Richard Hooker, both for his role in establishing (stabilizing) the Via Media and for the sonority of his prose. We were incredibly lucky to have the Prayer Book, the Laws of Ecclesiastical Polity, and the Authorized Version of the Bible all appearing at the outset of the (Reformed and Catholic) Church of England, all models of prose style and capable of informing “true religion and virtue.” Hooker’s “Learned Discourse of Justification” is one of the great statements of God’s mercy outside Scripture itself.
When I started Mary’s story, I thought I might vote for her. And then I read on, and on, and thought, “OK, this is getting way too fanciful.” A great story to be sure, but Hooker is a little more grounded in reason (not to mention scripture and tradition). Besides, Hooker was born in an Exeter…and so was I.
I wasn’t born in Exeter but I go along with what you said. Richard spoke to me.
As the spouse of a priest, I have learned that sometimes it pays not to let the facts get in the way of a good story. Is there a message in there? Perhaps… thanks for your post – it helped sort through this odd pairing.
To quote Matthew, “Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.” Today I honor Mary and God’s grace in loving the least of us.
I cast my vote for Hooker, “not as a compromise for the sake of peace, but as a comprehension for the sake of truth” (great collect).
“Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.”. Today I honor Mary…she exemplifies…whether in myth or reality…the healing love of God.
“Grant that we may maintain that middle way, not as a compromise for the sake of peace, but as a comprehension for the sake of truth…”
that pretty much sums it up for me!
I’m with Michelle for Richard.
I’m taking back my earlier contention that this year does not have enough goofy match ups. It’s former hooker vs Hooker, and I’m now realizing getting what you want is not always a good thing. (I voted for Hooker. I almost always vote for women, but Mary’s story is too sad to be inspiring – that a woman must starve and punish herself as a result of God’s love. It’s not sitting that well with me.)
I also thought they were getting quite cheeky with this match-up…
Brilliant, Holly. At their bracket-setting table, the SEC may have spewed coffee with frivolity when they thought of pairing these two…
I don’t see Mary’s story as sad. Solitude and silence may have been a gift to her after her former life of being used by men. Spiritual food sustained her, as it sustains us when we fast. 3 loaves lasting 47 yrs… reminds me of many biblical miracles with food. Maybe the gentle lion was the Lion of Judah.
I was waiting for the first person to make that pun…
…and while Mary’s story is entertaining and thought-inspiring, I think Richard Hooker did more for the Church than Mary did. Mary realized her sins, repented, and promptly renounced the world and was an influential figure only for Zosimus. I’d consider Mary a more powerful influence on the Church if she had then witnessed, worked for others, and eventually became a more widely known and respected Christian.
I agree with you, Tessa.
Well said, Tessa! I was wondering how many people would identify this as the Battle of the Hookers.
I remember Mary from a previous Lent Madness, though not how she fared in the bracket. Hooker, otoh, I had not heard of until today, and as others comment, his words of unity are deeply needed in theses times.
Was going with Hooker for helping find the via media, then the comments that piety was more important theological differences, made Mary the only choice.
Thank you Marcus for pointing out that Hooker died–not as a bishop, academician, or even prominant preacher like he’d been in London, but–serving as a rector in a small parish “near” Canterbury. How saintly.
Mary of Egypt: walked on water reformed sinner vs. an aristocrat that has a big brain? easy Go team underdog
So different……Mary got my vote this time.
Mary of Egypt. Obviously. Ummm… She lived off of three loaves of bread for decades and a LION dug her grave!
I’m not too sure that a lion digging her grave is something to be proud of. Consider the usual reason cats dig in sand…
My vote went to Richard Hooker, who envisioned the Via Media “not as a compromise for the sake of peace, but as a comprehension for the sake of truth”!
Really there is no comparison, but the gentle lion did it for me.
Searched online for Laws of Ecclesiastical Polity-$450.00! Wow! Headed for the library….
Libraries are great. I love libraries. But $450 (at least in US$) seemed a little high for a book whose text, like that of The BCP1979, would be completely in the public domain. And it is over ten times too high, because I found a new hardcover edition for under $40 . . , http://www.powells.com/book/of-the-laws-of-ecclesiastical-polity-9781297735059/61-0. At that price you can buy an extra copy to give your local parish library, if they don’t already have one.
Also available from Amazon for $0.99 on Kindle, $12.95 as paperback, $22.95 as hardcover.
https://www.amazon.com/Ecclesiastical-Polity-Richard-4-1600-Hooker/dp/1376091992/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=
the challenge, as always, is discerning “minor” in the realm of theological differences.
Still Richard Hooker.
“…for Anglicans, it’s Richard Hooker.”
Okay, I can take direction.
Also: Wow. Never had my fave go out in the first round like that before. Phoebe, oh Phoebe…
Even though Mary’s story is filled with too much fantasy for my liking,I voted for her because she reflects triumph over much of the judgements and condemnation society levels at people for their choices. Richard Hooker’s story is too cliche and ordinary for me! Too much darn arguing over theology and piety!
Maybe it seems trite because we so take for granted the principles that he was the first to articulate. When he wrote, the subjects he addressed were burning issues, political as well as theological.
“Burning” issues literally. Bishops Ridley and Latimer were burned at the stake, horribly, along with so many others, over these issues. “We shall this day light such a candle by God’s grace, in England, as I trust never shall be put out.” Such deaths still make me shiver. Maybe that’s why I think confronting gun violence today is so important.
Touché, my friends.
P.S., St. C, just got back from a pro-gun control rally at the state capitol!
You are an awesome rock goddess. Respect.
I have always loved John Hooker’s writings, especially the idea of “via media”. I Marvel at how much his ideas are still present in Anglican theology and spiritual practices. So glad to see him here.
This one is just no contest. Scripture, Tradition and Reason — with the reminder that all else is trivial and negotiable — against Tradition alone, of the bizarre tall-tale variety. My debt and my vote go to Richard Hooker.
Yes, exactly.
Mary of Egypt for me today. She speaks to me about where I am in my faith walk right now. Maybe Hooker would mean more to me if I were Anglican and I don’t mean to minimize his contributions, but in supported there aren’t more votes for Mary.
Richard Hooker, champion of Anglicanism and the BCP.
She walked on water. Twice.
I liked and agreed with Richard’s belief that points of theology are much less important than being a good person. And the Mary story seemed to be a myth, too fantastic to ever be true!
The lion did it for me.
Mary of Egypt: Matthew 25:25
Richard Hooker: Matthew 28:19
I voted for Richard Hooker.
Those verses neatly summarize a good part of my reasons for voting for the priest over the hermit.
Mary of Egypt is the epitome of LentMadness. She is not to be believed unless you abide in faith, pure and simple. Her life is really not to be believed unless you take it in that way. I mean….come on now….she paid her transportation across the ocean with her body as a prostitute? Jeez Louise ! And the two loaves of bread lasting for 40+ years? And did she ever have any clothes? And a gentle lion? You gotta have faith to believe all this and quite frankly, there have been stranger things I’ve believed that were true. Hail Mary buried by a monk and a lion. Sane madness for Lent.
I am with you. My patron saint is St. Christina. Different accounts have her living in different places and times but all of them say she as the patron saint of bipolar, flagpole sitters, and escape artists . Sometime there must have been someone named Christina that started the myth. I think the same about Mary of Egypt.
Christian Folklore vs. Lawyer: I voted for ME based on my love of oral traditions both Christian or other. The power of stories to inspire and transmit our shared human experience outlive laws that are subject to changing times (thank heaven).
Mary. Her story may be legend, but what do we know? I’m thinking about the unnamed woman with the hemorrhage Jesus healed. No connection with Mary, but again, what do we know. God does as He will.
No question — real vs fairy tale
*cursor hovers over voting button*
I’M SO TORN
Richard Hooker! As a Presbyterian, Hooker’s wise counsel reminds me of the motto of the Evangelical Presbyterian Church: “In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty. In all things, charity. Truth in Love.”
Right on!
For me Mary was the better of the two hookers. Buried by a lion! Aslan won’t show up to bury just anyone.
LOL! Very good!
Where /how do we get to vote
There should be a button at the bottom of the original writeup, before the comments start. If it’s not showing up, I would suggest refreshing your computer and if it still doesn’t show then try a different browser. Old versions of Internet Explorer or Firefox may not support the Lent Madness website.
Instead of going for the underdog (no offense to Mary intended), I went with Richard. He was able to find a middle ground where complex and simple could meet, where High Church and Low Church could worship together. The sort of thing that makes me glad to be an Episcopalian while admiring and respecting other denominations. And even other religions.
Gotta vote for the Anglican
Mary of Egypt’s story has too much of the “women are carnal and unclean” theme for my taste. Richard Hooker played that difficult role in challenging times of an informed moderate.
Richard for me especially being with the Episcopal church, Mary another fact or fiction for me.
Calvin gave his name to the Calvinists. Luther to the Lutherans. So glad our theologian Richard Hooker came along a generation after “Church of England” had already been coined.
!!
Hooker it is!
Mary’s story sounds more like a fable.
PS. Dont mean to sound disrespectful of the SEC but was pitting Hooker against a prostitute intentional?
I appreciate your ecclesiastical wit in pairing prostitute and Hooker. You had me at “not a virgin.” I considered voting for Mary until I realized the story was a fantastical mishmash of tawdry miracles that would have delighted pub goers: a sunburned and charred (“kindled” and “burning” says the collect in an unfortunately literal image) but saintly stick of human firewood is left in the sand as a piece of dessicated barbeque to be buried as inedible by a lion. Gross. Hooker however was a revelation as the source of the via media. I learned about the Anglican “three-legged stool” from an early rector. The via media is quintessentially Anglican. The concept of “things indifferent” reminds me of Thomas Aquinas; it sounds Aristotelian. The effort to find a way forward through the human mind, to come up with a doctrine that unites tradition, reason, and revelation is so worthy in my eyes that I enthusiastically vote for Hooker. When I think of the via media in the light of issues facing us today, I realize that we live in an extremist environment in which the center has fallen apart. “Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world.” The via media is a rational principle to guide us, not the reality we live in. But we can see how wide, how far wide, we are from the beloved community and use that principle as an Ignatian “standard” beneath which we can navigate our way toward true democracy and a good society.
Eloquent. Especially compared to my comments, which seem to be tending toward the snarky this season. I’m praying for an extra dose of charity.
We are in need of mighty warriors such as yourself to fight folly during Lent:
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snark!
He left it dead, and with its head
Galumphed back to the ark.
Wishing you victory over all uncharitable forces in this world.
Haha, didn’t recognize it at first, but knew it must be Lewis Carroll.
And Davis, if that is what you sound like when you think you’re being snarky, I’d hate to be caught in the fallout of your full-out snarkiness!
It is indeed vorpal.
And from the sublime to the ridiculous:
(Sung to the tune of “God Bless America”–I’m missing some of the words in my middle-aged brain. Learned it in choir when I was confirmed some 30 years ago. I offer this song in love and with apologies to my Lutheran and Presbyterian friends.)
I am an Anglican,
I’m C of E,
Not the high church, nor the low church,
(Something something) and sanctified and free.
Not a Lutheran, nor a Presby,
Nor a Baptist white with foam.
I am an Anglican,
just one step from Rome!
I am an Anglican,
Via Media–that’s me!
I’m hearing Sting:
I’m an alien, I’m a legal alien,
I’m an Englishman in New York.
I’m an Anglican, I’m a real Anglican,
I’m a member of C of E.
Susan Lee Hauser,
I learned he 4th verse of “I am an Anglican” as “I am Catholic and Protestant and free” and the last verses as as “I am an Anglican, just one step from Rome, I am an Anglican, via media, boom boom.”
Love the part about minor disagreements being unimportant. To paraphrase Rabbi Hillel, “Love God, love your neighbour, all the rest is commentary”.
Mary has a more moving story in my opinion. I’m also beginning to wonder why this game seems to put women versus men.
Some might think this is adiáfora, but I don’t. In the section on Mary of Egypt it is written that the former (alleged) hooker “repented, and the Virgin Mary appeared and forgave her.”
I would like to point out that while the Mother of our Lord may have appeared to her Egyptian namesake, she, who is always pointing at her Son in iconography, would have pronounced God’s absolution and God’s forgiveness of Mary of Egypt’s sins. The same Mary that will never be on a Lent Madness bracket because it would be unfair to every other Saint ever, would absolutely know that it is God alone who forgives sin (Luke 7:49). [Yes we can and should forgive those who sin against us, but please show me where it shows that Mary of Egypt sinned against Mary of Nazareth.]
Additionally, I was troubled that Mary of Egypt’s response was to go live in the wilderness where she only received Communion once in 40+ years and basically had little opportunity to share the good news of God’s love, grace, & forgiveness with others on a regular basis.
Furthermore, Evelyn nicely and Biblically summed up the contrast between the two Saints in her comment.
Richard Hooker & the BCP are our head and heart; he ably rebutted Puritanism and supported the beautiful prayer book—coudn’t not vote for him!
I started the reading thinking Mary was my kind of girl – not young or beautiful, well educated or well connected, not a martyr or a virgin. But then – she was a prostitute? So if a woman is none of the former she is the latter?
Today I choose the saintliness of a life lived in thoughtful and faithful manner. Here, here for the middle way!
Mary for not being a virgin, although I don’t think that should even be something to be mentioned one way or the other.
Mary of Egypt was a little exhausting to read about. Whew!
I needed a bit more of a likely (vs. mythical) story this morning, so Richard Hooker it was for me. But I may feel differently another day!
Richard Hooker, for understanding that squabbling about minutiae does not a viable church make.
I decided to vote for Mary this morning. Not because Mr. Hooker (ironic?) isn’t deserving, but because I think I will vote for every female candidate for the Golden Halo whose resume starts with prostitution. I can’t help but wonder why? Is it because she was an eager prostitute? In which case, prostitute to sainthood, a path to be hugely admired. Is it because she was a victim of her time, and the only way she could survive and support herself was by prostitution, for which she would be condemned by all around her who gave her few other options? Or, was she disruptive and the only way the men in power could deal with her was to call her a prostitute, thus diminishing her power and naming her evil. I wonder about these things, but don’t have time to research her this morning. I doubt I would find much of herstory available anyway.
I’d have to say I was not moved by Mary’s story either. It is all too sad. Fantastic, yes, particularly that “gentle lion,” but normally that is the sort of thing I appreciate in these stories. But Richard Hooker’s foundational work in Episcopal theology, plus as others have mentioned his regard for piety as opposed to dogma, made the difference in my vote. Of course, that he’s also a Richard is key, too!
I recall reading somewhere that Richard Hooker defended the faithfulness of former (Roman) catholic English – such as the parents and ancestors of those living in his time – when it was alleged that they must not have been saved because of being papists and such. I hope someone else can either find a reference for this or rule it out – but his charity in this instance moved me. The Reformation in England was brutal at times, as we look at the faithful martyrs on every side of the various controversies. I love the Episcopal Church and our Anglican heritage, but I marvel at someone like Hooker who managed to keep both his head and his heart.
No contest for me here. Christian unity (or the lack thereof) is an issue close to my heart. Hooker’s articulation of the via media and his view of adiáfora endear him to me. Apart from the obviously legendary aspects of Mary’s story, I will pretty much always vote for a saint who serves the Lord within society over a saint who seals her-/himself off from society as a hermit.
DAMN Mary. I can’t compete!
For an Episcopalian, it has to be Hooker. And my father’s name was Richard.
Mine’s was Fred, but I voted for Richard anyway. There is a St. Fred, but it’ll be a dry season in the Lentorium before he turns up in these pages.
I believe there have been many calls for Mr. Rogers to be included in the saintly lineup. NEXT YEAR PLEASE. That will be an excellent opportunity to vote for St. Fred.
I would be happy to vote for Mr. Rogers!
Haha, I didn’t know you two were in the Fred-for-the-halo group!
No contest! Hooker! If folks thought Quiteria was impossible, Mary joins her in that slot!
Voting for Mary of Egypt cuz she was unknown to me before this!
Also, I want to quibble with the word use of the blurb. First, which Alexandria did she move to at 12? Second, yes, her story is about going from being a sex worker to living alone in the desert for the most part, but I would like to read more value neutral language about it. Instead of reading, “using her body as payment for the journey [to Jerusalem]”, I would feel much more comfortable reading something that did not imply that her passive body was being sold as an object for trade, but rather something along the lines of: she sold sexual services to pay for her pilgrimage.
In honoring Mary of Egypt, it is important to honor every part, accurately describing her agency in following her call. God, I am sure, was with her every step of the way.
I had to vote for the man who ranked “reason” as important as “tradition” and “Scripture.” We need that now more than ever.
Hear hear.
As an Episcopalian, I’m aware that Hooker is the closest thing we have to a patron saint, so I feel like a bit of an infidel in not voting for him! (Not voting AGAINST him, mind you, just voting for Mary of Egypt instead.) Hooker has already gotten centuries of recognition, after all!
But I can’t resist such a fantastic story of repentance and redemption as Mary’s, even if it is a flight of someone’s fancy…
A terrific point. Flights of Fancy win souls, after all!
I love Mary’s story. I really wanted to vote for her for all the reasons put forth. I’m sure prostitution was her way to keep from starving and then, when she knew the Lord, He gave her enough bread for over 40 years. And the lion showing up to help dig her grave is great–I have big dogs who would do that for me. But I voted for Richard. Gifts to the church, common sense, etc. etc. Will put Mary of Egypt with Christina the Astonishing as favorites that I didn’t vote for.
As someone who has struggled with sexual sin, Mary’s story resonates with me. I voted for her, but Hooker is pretty important for Anglicanism.
I found Mary’s story to be a bit much but I appreciate Richard’s work to find middle ground.
47 years on three loaves? Really?
Even though I am of the Anglican (Episcopal) tradition and love the idea of the “media via,” I sympathize with Mary of Egypt whose story includes depiction as a prostitute. Having recently read Mary Beard’s Women and Power, I can’t help but wonder how much of Mary of Egypt’s backstory was embellished and filled in by men who perhaps assumed that the only way an unmarried woman could make her way in the world was through selling herself. On the other hand, in a patriarchal ancient society, this was often the only available way.
I relate to Mary because she is like so many of us humans – fragile and sinful in nature, until we turn to the Lord, in whom all things are possible.
I voted for Mary of Egypt because she is just like me. She is a sinner and she does not stand out as unique in the world. She shows me that I don’t have to be a super hero for God to love me. I have gifts that God gave me and I may not stand out in the world, but God loves me anyway.
Mary’s story is pretty fantastic and hard to credit, especially when I hit the detail that she was a prostitute. Didn’t poor Mary Magdalene spend centuries as a prostitute in the eyes of the Church before medieval legends were discarded for the misogyny they represented? Who knows what Mary was like or how many women she may be representing in a combined form?
My first thought on reading that–that someone of her era decided that a female, making her way by ship across the sea alone, MUST have sold herself to come up with the fare.
Nonetheless, I, raised in New England a warm extended Roman Catholic family, by a pair of lapsed Catholics, am pretty tired of the anti-Catholicism that I encountered once I left the Northeast for college and then later the West Coast, where I married my multi-denominational husband, and joined the Episcopal Church with him so we could be united in it. I was captivated by Richard Hooker’s concept of a via media (though perhaps that was not what he called it), and his adiafora! Hurray! Hooker all the way for me.
Beautifully said, Isabel and Elizabeth. My first thought about her being a prostitute was, here we go again—Mary Magdalene all over. My second thought was, So what if she was? What else was a woman on her own at the end of the 4th century to do in order to survive?
And yet. One biography of Mary has her not only naked and sunburned in the desert when Zosimas found her, but her entire body covered in blond hair. That gave me nightmares, I’m afraid. So I ran to Richard Hooker’s 3-legged stool for safety! This converted Methodist can do no other.
I see Hooker as a reconciler at a crossroads of the Church. His theological wisdom is a foundation that sill can work in a divided and confused world, at a time of significant challenges to the world-wide church.
Amazing to have a prostitute facing off against a Hooker in Lent Madness!
On a Roll with my first correct pick yesterday. I have Hooker going all the way to the Golden Halo.
Need a blowout today to get started and send a warning to all the other Saints!
Congratulations, JohntheotherVerger!
Mary worked courageously with what she was given.
Again, a no-brainer. I’m ordinarily not impressed with theologians, but I make an exception for Hooker. And he’s pitted against another mysterious figure whose sole claim to fame is a few interesting myths and the distinction of paying her way to Jerusalem by selling her body.
Although Richard Hooker is a personal hero, I went with Mary of the Desert. The essence of her story reminds us there is always and always will be hope for all of us through faith no matter what we look like or what have done.
Going for history over legend, at least in this round. Though I will admit, as legends go, Mary of Egypt’s legend is better than many, and breaks the usual standard clichés for female saints.
I love the story of Mary of Egypt, but I love the works of Richard Hooker much more. Without him, where would we Anglicans be?
Mary’s story is a bit fairytale — Hooker was a real live person.
Ah, but how do you know she wasn’t real? The eastern and RC churches all venerate her. There must have been someone to start the story.
Sorry this is not about my choice but the fact I normally receive an daily email from Lent Madness. Today I did not. Any reason for that? Thanks for your help. BTW I did vote for Mary.
I didn’t get the usual email today either–but googled Lent Madness and went from there. What happened to the email?
That’s what happened to me yesterday. Today was back to normal.
Richard Hooker was an inspiration to the Catholic and Protestant Churches. Where I’m sure the story of Mary of Egypt may be true
It sounds fictious to me! Ruth Soule
Voted for Richard, was quite surprised by his lead. My preferences is for empirical evidence not outlandish mythical tales.
As an Anglican, I had to go with Richard.
Mary is shouting at me to think about all the girls and women who have had no choice but to pay with their bodies. No matter what becomes of them in earthly terms, their interior lives are forever filled with repentance, isolation, burning of skin, and nakedness. Thanks to people like Richard Hooker who remind us that the Anglican way invites us remember we are all children of God and that the Marys of this world are our treasured sisters in Christ.
When hooker vs. Hooker struck me, I laughed. I’m not laughing now. I like mysteries and miracles. I’m sorry for Mary. I’m a huge fan of the BCP. Huge. Voted for Richard Hooker.
You’r right. Unfortunately that was a bit amusing, not sure it ought to be.
There is no way I am ever going to vote for anyone over Richard Hooker. Never.
Please note that Hooker did not say Scripture, tradition, and reason were the sources, as if reason were the least of the three. He actually wrote: “What Scripture doth plainly deliver, to that the first place of credit and obedience is due; the next whereunto is whatsoever any man can necessarily conclude by the force of reason; after these the voice of the church succeedeth.”
Hi Bill. Did you say that it Welsh?
Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch.
Couldn’t have said it better myself, Bill. Thank you for the clarification.
Is there any greater delight than scrolling through these comments and meditating on them over the course of the day?
No. Except maybe sea salt caramel ice cream.
MMMmmmmm. An entire carton. Now that’s what I call a Lenten discipline.
You betcha!
I’ve never had that. Where can I find some? Another candidate is a cocoanut macaroon with dark chocolate on top, as produced in the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia where I grew up.
Agree! They open up whole avenues of spiritual possibilities for us today. Here are many roads to take!
Not many, I agree.
I was 10years old, near the end of WWll , walking the dog I wandered across all the bomb damage into Exeter cathedral. One of the Altar Guild ladies tied the dog outside and walked me through the cathedral. I had never attended a church in my life but she told me to “Come back tomorrow and hear the organ play” I did just that and over the years my faith in God was all important to me. In 1997 I returned to England and revisited the cathedral. There I found the Statue of Richard Hooker , with a pidgin sitting on the wide brim of his Cardinal’s hat, looking down on me. He gets my vote.
Wonderful story! Thank you!
Mary of Egypt’s story has its charms and her long life of penance makes her an appropriately Lenten saint. But we actually know almost nothing about her: her story is almost entirely fantasy. By the way, Mary of Egypt is placed by most sources in the 5th century (as is her friend Zozimas), not in the third century, where our blogger puts her. Does he have a reason for doing that?
Richard Hooker, by contrast, is someone we know a lot about, both from historical record and from his writings. For his work in elaborating the Anglican Via Media on the triple foundation of Scripture, tradition and reason I am deeply grateful, and so I vote for Hooker.
Lovely as the idea of burial by lion is, I voted for Richard Hooker. I am so grateful for the underpinning of Anglican faith on Scripture, Tradition and Reason, and for his wisdom regarding minor theological disagreements. If only we could hold on to his wise words now.
This was a difficult choice but I voted for Mary. The patron saint of chastity, her story reminds me that human trafficking is still happening all over the world. Her homelessness appears to be her choice, but I’d like to ask her about her life. How many times have I made assumptions about the homeless in my community? Her story reminds me this is not right of me to do, that I can’t know why someone is in the position they are in and that my judgement is not helpful.
I have a very high regard for Richard Hooker and my vote should not be seen as diminishing his role in establishing the Anglican Church.
Very helpful, thoughtful insights. Thank you.
I feel a special attraction to the Desert Fathers and Mothers. The lion who dug Mary’s grave may be one of the lions who helped Anthony of Egypt bury Paul the Hermit. Maybe.
Definitely Mary, the hooker, not Hooker. He has had much too much adulation already. Mary is a real woman’s woman, a woman who did what she had to do, and who although she was engaged in a life of what was then defined as sin, and had NO social status, was ready to sell her body to go on a journey to venerate the cross!!! That’s faith. Hooker, with his comfortable life, had nowhere near Mary’s faith IMHO!
Voted for Mary because of the Lion
Love those cats!
Simple decision, after all. Big shot Anglican scholar accomplishes so much foundational thinking for our denomination. Mary repents and goes off to live away from the world, sustained by her faith alone.
Hooker would be the obvious choice.
Why, then, did my cursor move and settle on the circle next to Saint Mary of Egypt?
The mind makes rational the world around us, but only the heart actually knows.
When I read the names I thought “for sure I’ll vote Mary” but gosh just couldn’t go against Hooker (unfortunate name aside).
I read that “hooker” as a euphemism for “prostitute” arose during the Civil war, when the “camp followers” were protected by General Hooker. They were thenceforth referred to as “Hooker’s army.” However, Wikipedia reports that “hooker” was a term commencing in the mid 19th century due to the concentration of prostitutes at the dockyards in Manhattan at Corlear’s Hook. Our Hooker well predates that usage. So much for the poetry of history.
I voted for Mary. It’s hard for us in the busy world to accept, much less understand, hermits. Along the same lines, cloistered religious orders aren’t “doing things” out in the world, but they are praying for all of us.
I voted for Richard Hooker because of his emphasis on reason and inclusion.
I’m looking forward to John Wesley’s match-up later in this round, as he takes Hooker’s “scripture-tradition-reason” trifecta and makes it a “scripture-tradition-reason-experience” quadrella.
By the way, do you realise there’s another Richard Hooker. He wrote the series of humorous novels on which the film and TV series M*A*S*H were based. So, I also voted in honour of the women and men of the 4077th, including one of my favourite 20th century American theologians, Father Mulcahy.
Thank you!
In contentious times like ours, the focus on reasoned discourse of reason, scripture, and tradition, strikes me as indeed a gift from God.
We seem to be in the midst of culture wars that have evolved over the past 60 or so years, because we genuinely stopped talking with each other about values, and the authority or not for our choices… such that the great majority of the culture seems to have retreated to shouting corners. Perhaps that is very much like the Protestant/Catholic divide of those 1500/1600s… to which Hookers voice spoke a way forward… via-media indeed. It’s a great deal of why I’m an Episcopalian.
Mary’s story really touched me, but Hooker’s voice is probably what got me to the place to appreciate it.
While I’m not passionate about either on this matchup, I went with Mary. Her reform and piousness won me over.
Well, as a proud parent of two cats and, since last Lent Madness, a very very very proud trans woman, I vote for Mary of Egypt.
Mazel tov three times.
Right on! I’ll see your 2 cats and rise you 2 more. Inside. Three outside. Bless you, stand tall nd proud!
Does anyone know how to pronounce adiafora? Definitely want to make it part of my vocabulary!
The spelling in American English is Adiaphora.
I found https://www.howtopronounce.com/adiaphora/ which has eight audio links to different voices saying the word. Siri says it like A-dia-phora, but then my Siri is set to British English.
And while Wikipedia doesn’t have the phonetics, neither does Dictionary.com nor the free version of Merriam-Webster’s website. But Wikipedia does have other useful information at https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adiaphora.
Many thanks!!
I like Mary
What the heck? Game theory has me voting for this Mary in order to insure Mary of Scotland sees her righteous victory! God save Mary (the other one) !
I know we all must love our great Anglican theologians, but, I say, I’m quite surprised at the low votes for Mary of Egypt. I voted for her because I feel her story is more compelling than Richard Hooker’s.
I am amazed that the choice was between two hookers, one redeemed.
You mean that Richard Hooker wasn’t redeemed?
Mary of Egypt is just too darn interesting not to vote for. Richard hooker is fine, great, but Mary of Egypt has a heck of a backstory.
I love fairy tales, but Mary’s story was a bit fantastic, even for me. It was so comforting to read Hooker’s approach to dealing with a polarized society. I’m used to the Methodist quadrilateral, adding experience as one of the guides, but so much of our liturgy and way of being can be traced to Hooker. He gets my vote today.
Any chance whatsoever that a prostitute was accidentally put in competition with a Hooker. LOL.
When I saw that Mary of Egypt only had 27% of the votes I suddenly understood why there is a problem in Lent Madness with people voting multiple times. I wish I could vote multiple times. Poor Mary…
I love who Mary of Egypt was, if she was. God uses broken people for great things. The rest of the myth got too “mythy” for me, so Richard got my vote. After all, we know what he did and I bet God said something like “Hey, good work old faithful friend. Take the shortcut to Heaven — up the Via Media!”
OK, Lent Madness has a twisted sense of humor in pairing these two !
(hooker vs Hooker) as already stated.
Too much drama in Mary’s story. Plus Richard Hooker somehow brought 2 thoughts of faith together. Will have to read more about him.