Today in Lent Madness, we will finally answer that age old question: Theologian or Nurse? Okay, there’s a lot more to Anselm of Canterbury and Florence Nightingale than these two labels, so you’ll just have to read on.
In yesterday’s action, Henry Budd left Cecilia singing the blues as the patron saint of music lost in a close battle 53% to 47%.
Shockingly (or not so shockingly if you’re a longtime Lent Madness participant), we encountered our first case of voter fraud as 546 votes for Cecilia were removed after the ever-vigilant SEC noticed a discrepancy. It was a youthful prank and said youth has since confessed and been absolved. Frankly, there are worse ways for teens to get into trouble on the internet than voting too many times for a saint in Lent Madness.
However, this will not be tolerated and perpetrators face being cast into the outer darkness of Lent Madness where there will be weeping and gnashing of brackets. Do everyone a favor: vote once. If you’re particularly enthusiastic, get all your friends, neighbors, and even your enemies (the ones we’re supposed to love anyway) to cast a vote for your favorite saint. Big Lent is watching…
Anselm of Canterbury
Anselm of Canterbury was a Benedictine monk and theologian of the medieval Church. Born in the eleventh century in a region of France that is now part of Italy, he entered the Abbey of Bec as a novice at the age of 27. Later, he became abbot and was known for his skillful leadership and his kind, loving discipline toward the monks. He was also known for his very public squabbles with the monarchs of England during his time as the Archbishop of Canterbury, defending the Church’s authority to appoint leaders and manage its own wealth. For his resistance to the English kings, he was exiled twice.
Marrying his Neoplatonic worldview with Aristotelian logic, Anselm is considered one of the greatest thinkers of the Middle Ages. He espoused a philosophy of “faith seeking understanding,” by which he meant people’s love of God inspired them to pursue deeper knowledge of God. Anselm is especially known for two highly influential theological arguments. The first argument—Proslogion—explores the existence of God. Secondly, his treatise Cur Deus Homo irrevocably shaped the development of Christian theology by arguing that Jesus’ crucifixion was necessary to atone for humankind’s sin. Anselm argues that through sin, humans offended God, and God is owed restitution for this offense—but we have nothing with which to make such a payment. Personal acts of atonement will not suffice. Only God can pay off such massive, crushing debt. As God is merciful, atonement is made with the self-sacrifice of the sinless, human, and divine figure of Jesus. Anselm’s theory was criticized by his contemporaries and continues to trouble some theologians, even as it has formed the backbone of much of Christian
theology for a millennium.
Anselm died in 1109 on Spy Wednesday (the Wednesday in Holy Week) and was laid to rest at Canterbury Cathedral. The exact location of his relics today is uncertain—they were removed after a cataclysmic fire in the 1170s. Anselm’s feast day is April 21.
Collect for Anselm of Canterbury
Almighty God, you raised up your servant Anselm to teach the Church of his day to understand its faith in your eternal Being, perfect justice, and saving mercy: Provide your Church in every age with devout and learned scholars and teachers, that we may be able to give a reason for the hope that is in us; through Jesus Christ our Lord, who lives and reigns with you and the Holy Spirit, one God, for ever and ever. Amen.
Florence Nightingale
Known as “The Lady with the Lamp” for her work as a nurse during the Crimean War, Florence Nightingale was born in Florence, Italy, in 1820 to a well-connected British family. Despite her upper-class background, Nightingale heard a call from God in 1837 to serve and care for others. Nightingale was expected to marry well, produce children, and carry on the family legacy. Instead, she boldly answered the call she heard from God and became the founder of modern nursing practice.
Born out of her experiences of tending the wounded during the Crimean War, Nightingale began documenting the effects of sanitary conditions on wartime injuries. Nightingale is said to have reduced the mortality rate during the war from 42 percent to 2 percent by addressing hand washing, water contamination, and sterilization of surgical materials. These ideals of sanitary care continue to this day in modern healthcare practice.
Nightingale documented her theories on nursing care in numerous publications—the most famous is her treatise, Notes on Nursing. These theories led her to establish the Nightingale School for Nurses at St. Thomas’s Hospital in London (now part of King’s College, London). This began a process of social reform that opened the door for women, providing them with skills that led to careers outside of domestic service work or factory positions. By providing a skilled nursing force, Nightingale improved healthcare disparities in London and implemented workforce healthcare (now occupational and public health nursing practice); she also advocated for hunger relief in India and worked to abolish prostitution laws that targeted women.
Nightingale was raised in the Church of England and was greatly influenced by Wesleyan ideals. Nightingale believed that her faith was best expressed through the care and love of others. A believer in universal reconciliation, Nightingale is said to have comforted one prostitute who was concerned about going to hell. Nightingale said, “Oh, my girl, are you not now more merciful than the God you think you are going to? Yet the real God is far more merciful than any human creature ever was or can ever imagine.”
Collect for Florence Nightingale
Life-giving God, you alone have power over life and death, over health and sickness: Give power, wisdom, and gentleness to those who follow the lead of your servant Florence Nightingale, that they, bearing with them your presence, may not only heal but bless, and shine as lanterns of hope in the darkest hours of pain and fear; through Jesus Christ, the healer of body and soul, who lives and reigns with you and the Holy Spirit, one God, now and for ever. Amen.
Anselm of Canterbury vs. Florence Nightingale
- Florence Nightingale (81%, 6,596 Votes)
- Anselm of Canterbury (19%, 1,516 Votes)
Total Voters: 8,112
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I voted for Florence Nightingale because she helped the sick in her community.
Oliver, you are such a caring young person and I always like your reasoning for your choices. Keep up the good work, young and faithful servant.
I’m with Oliver. Anselm did good, but it was too hard for me to understand. Florence Nightingale for me.
I like that Florence Nightingale went against the rules of her time to help other people.
Great to hear from you, Lindsey. Your reasons for voting for Florence Nightingale are solid, though I voted the other way. Glad you’re participating in Lent Madness.
I agree Oliver I agree
I agree Oliver but it’s because of her noting the need for sanitary conditions made a difference for you and i
The care of the sick is certainly important, but a saying of Anselm’s changed forever my approach to faith…as a child of the reformation/enlightenment I had grown up believing that I had to understand in order to believe. Anselm says “I do not seek to understand in order that I may believe, but rather, I believe in order that I may understand.” This has transformed my life. So I voted Anselm.
And she pondered those thoughts in her heart … Anselm believed and understood what that meant. Anselm it is.
Thanks, Cheri. That is beautiful and exactly the thought I need today.
This was a very tough decision, because I have great respect for Florence Nightingale, but in the end I had to vote for Anselm. Cheri, your quote helped me make my decision.
That is a wonderful quote! Your mentioning it has made it more real for me, thank you.
my issue is substitutionary atonement- going with Florence
My issue, also.
Thank you Ethel.
Okay, in all fairness, Anslem never stood a chance against Nightingale. But as much as I love our CBers, I kind of think Ms. Belldane might have ‘pushed him off the cliff’ with all those big words
I don’t agree with Anselm’s theology and I very much support the Gospel in action that was Florence Nightingale. Not to mention, it is International Women’s Day and Florence was a pioneer.
Here, here! My vote to Florence for this reason as well.
I, too, voted for Anselm and will share his saying with our Daughters of the King Chapter this morning. Besides, I think he’s likely the under dog in today’s pairing! Thank you, Cheri!
Greetings to you & your chapter from a DoK DAL.
That is a beautiful quote!
Cheri,
Yes, yes! Faith, then understanding
Amen. I appreciate his focus on thinking. And I always try to root for the underdog.
Thank you for sharing that bit of Anselm’a wisdom! about faith leeading to understanding! Nonetheless, I voted for Florence -in gratitude for the lifesaving advances she broght to nursing and medecine in general.
Anselm has a way of expressing great thoughts. My favorite is the Ontological Argument for the existence of God and the one liner, “God is that than which nothing greater can be thought.”
I didn’t realize that was a quote from St. Anselm. Thank you, Sonia.
I feel the same way as you do, Polly. There does seem to be a pattern of coupling some ancient church leader of theology with a “practical Christianity” person. Both have their place in the scheme of things.
It is hard to say whom to choose. It does help to publicize less well known persons who were active in exploring the meaning of Christianity.
These are my thoughts as well. We do not lean on our education and understanding as the basis for our faith. Rather, it adds to my faith to become more educated about what I believe. Anselm, truly one of the saints who have gone before us whose voice echoes down to us through the centuries.
Cheri,
This is so important. We must believe to understand. Having been educated and spending all my professional life as an engineer – I always sought to understand but that is of the physical world, something that is achievable. But when it comes to God and our faith, to fully understand is impossible, so we must believe. Even then we may not understand, but when we are in heaven, only then do I think we will understand – at least mostly – we will never fully understand the mind of God.
St. Anselm’s statement about belief and understanding reminds me of Pere Aristide’s statement: “I don’t know what God is, but I believe in God.”
Well said, Cheri. I didn’t realize Anselm coined the phrase, “fath seeking understanding,” but it’s one that has been significant in my faith journey.
I don’t much like his theory of substitutionary atonement.
But I certainly appreciate his standing up against the English monarch.
So it’s Anselm for me today, much as I admire the work of St. Florence.
Right there with you Oliver.
I voted for Florence Nightingale too! Because nurse is so super great. Hi Oliver- its Princeton. How you doing Oliver?
Oliver- Yes I agree. Plus Nightingale is a good name. Good morning Oliver.
I voted for Nightingale because I’m a nurse and a Red Crosser
it is International Women’s day, how could you vote for anyone else?
Easy, Pat Z. If it were St. Francis Day, would you feel obliged to vote for his friends, the turkey vultures? LOL!
Oliver your a good kid
Good to hear from you, Oliver. Your reasons for voting for Florence Nightingale are sounded, though I voted the other way. Glad you’re participating in Lent Madness.
Me too
I voted for Florence night because she helped us out a lot. And many people said it was woman day so she was who I voted.
In celebration of International Women’s Day, I proudly
vote for Florence Nightingale!
A tough choice-secular vs religious from one perspective, but very much the same in another. My vote goes to Florence for her reach beyond just religious concerns. Plus, I am constantly reminded of her when I see “Employees must wash their hands before returning to work.”
I always wonder why it is only the employee who needs to wssh their hands, i personally think everyone should, especially when leaving the bathroom
Of course everyone should wash hands, but the employer only has authority over the employees. That’s why the wording of the signs in restrooms.
It is sort of the Anglican way: anybody can, no one must (even employees could sneak out without washing), some should (reality is that everyone should in this case!!)
Good answer, Diana! — Lesley
Good answer, Diana! The via media…
Amen, Diana!!
I vote for Florence as her work has saved countless lives on the battlefields of the world
I am a nurse but it was her mercy to the hooker that got me. She had no high horse she loved those in front of her.
Somewhere in C. S. Lewis’s letters he describes an elderly gentlemen whom he met, who had once been in love with Florence Nightingale, and had eventually beaten a sad retreat, describing her, IIRC, as “fierce … very fierce.”
Fierce is what makes a memorable nursing instructor. I am a nurse so I vote for a colleague.
I’m with you Christina! That quote got me too!
I like this comment! Very good
Nurses abound in my family…well, four anyway: Sainted Mother-in-law, son, daughter, and son-in-law. So Flo got my vote.
Tough,I am a nurse and once was a member of St. Anselm’s of Canterbury in Garden Grove CA (the altar carving of St Anselm has 6 toes on the left foot), but Flo’s reply to the prostitute tipped the balance. She offer true nursing TLC
So he was a Hemingway saint, Carol?
That’s an inside joke to cat lovers. Cats with 6 toes are called “polydactyl” or “Hemingway cats,” because so many of his in Havana had 6 toes.
Yeah, I know. It’s just trivia.
It’s International Women’s Day – got to be Florence in the Madness bracket!
My thought, too
My thoughts exactly. We all owe her a debt of gratitude to her contributions to public health. She followed her calling and used her gifts to better the world. She “believed that her faith was best expressed through the care and love of others.” Oh that we all would live out the golden rule in such a tangible way.
I’m with Sue! My mother was a nurse, and International women’s day. Florence it is.
In addition to her pioneering work in medical science, Florida was a pioneer in using statistics and the visual display of data…whenever I see a pie chart, I think of her! So happy we are remembering her on International Women’s Day!
Wow, the things we can learn from Lent Madness! I had no idea!
My thoughts exactly for International Women’s Day! Plus the women (and men) who have the heart and soul to care for the sick, wounded, and dying are AMAZING! God, bless their souls.
Count me in
Anselm’s Trinitarian theology is astoundingly beautiful, in its scholastic way, and yet seldom preached or discussed. See “Monologion.”
And yet his atonement theology took us down a very troubling path in the West.
Anselm was trying to contextualize the Doctrine of the Atonement. His metaphor certainly made sense in his age. As we in our time seek to contextualize the same doctrine, we should be humble and aware that future generations may be as harsh to us as we are to our predecessors.
Agreed!!
Agreed with Tim… I know Anselm was a product of his times, but so was Jesus, and he managed a more inclusive soteriology, IMO.
While we do tend to emphasize Jesus’ inclusivity, it’s also clear from the scriptures that he expected a lot from people who would follow him. It’s also startlingly clear that there is judgement. That’s not something the church invented after Jesus’ time.
To be sure, I hope we do emphasize God’s mercy, but I also hope we remember the promise that we are all to be judged.
Please elaborate how it took the West down a troublesome path.
I, too, would like elaboration. His doctrine informed mine and I don’t see it any other way.
Tim, could you say more about the troublesome path. I don’t understand the reference. Thanks.
It is called “substitutionary atonement,” and it can certainly be supported by reading certain parts of the New Testament, particularly Paul’s letters, in a certain way, and it has a kind of abstract logic that fits with the way people in 11th century Europe thought, including how they thought about the majesty of rulers, and the importance of purity and absolute justice. Imaginatively, as it has been interpreted by modern evangelicals, it requires us to consider God’s justice as being utterly and absolutely offended by our sin—or, in more modern terms, to think of God as being, in a sense ***allergic*** to our sins, our impurities.
As Morgan Guyton puts it, “Growing up evangelical, the answer was simple: Jesus took the punishment for my sin to save me from an angry, perfectionist God who wanted to burn me in hell forever. … [In] the morality that I grew up with, … sin had nothing to do with hurting other people and everything to do with whether or not I was displeasing God. … Since God is holy, he cannot tolerate sin. Therefore, we need Jesus to die for our sins so we can go to heaven and be with God. Jesus had to die on the cross to satisfy the wrath of God against our sins. Since conservative evangelicalism commits itself to affirming that nobody deserves heaven without Jesus’ sacrifice, that means that God’s moral standards must be defined in such a way that basically decent people who aren’t Christian deserve to be tortured forever. The result is that God appears to be the infinitely picky, uncompromising school principal of the universe” … who totally demands and deserves our love, but can’t and won’t accept us as we are, because we are totally depraved until we say the magic words that make us acceptable to him, and also constantly try to toe the straight and narrow that will placate him and keep him from being offended all over again and somehow undo and invalidate our promises of allegiance that made things OK with him.
Anselm, I’m sure, never could have guessed that this would be what came out of his effort to imagine the logic of the sacrifice of Christ.
Well said, Gretchen. I admire Anselm for his deep thoughts and his obvious faith. However, as a nurse, I must vote for my hero, Florence!!
Thanks Gretchen!
Two people have helped me make sense of Anselm, and show how his account of the atonement is not at all what people made of it in recent centuries. One was Robert Crouse, who wrote a beautiful and compelling article about what Anselm actually meant by the words he uses published in the Canadian Journal of Theology back in the late 50x. More recently, Alister McGrath has written a very similar article with very much the same argument, apparently without any awareness of the earlier article. I am sorry, but I don’t remember precisely where it is. For anyone who is really keen, Google could probably track it down.
This is a very difficult pairing. It is tempting to pit the love of truth against the love of people, but of course there can be no such conflict in reality. Mercy and truth have kissed each other. Truth springs up from the earth, and righteusness has looked down from heaven. In Jesus, whom both Nightingale and Anselm loved. Perhaps one sees Anselm’s deep and rich love especially in his prayers. These don’t get the attention the Monologion and Cur Deus Homo (‘Why the God-Man’) get.
Had to vote for Nightingale, she was my childhood heroine.
(Another Amy C)
Indeed a childhood heroine. Florence continues to save lives even today as we all continue to wash our hands.
Thinker vs. doer/healer. And on international women’s day?…go Ms. Nightingale!
“Nightingale documented her theories”
…as a woman scientist I have love this,
and that Nightingale’s work ” led to careers outside of domestic service work or factory positions.” BUT MOSTLY for “ faith… best expressed through the care and love of others.” and at a time when so many people (just) talk about their faith and ides, I think we need to honor those who do (and try to do likewise).
Helping the (my) cause is the fact that my mother was named Florence. My immigrant grandmother, not knowing a good “American name” asked the attending nurse for a suggestion. The nurse suggested the newly born child be named after, in the nurse’s option “the greatest women of all time; Florence Nightingale’!
Tough decision! I had to go with Anselm. My grandparents parish in Dearborn, Michigan was named after St. Anselm. Loved going to Saturday night mass with grandparents.
Went with Florence after much thought.
Florence, (clean) hands down! I believe that my great-grandmother, born in England in the 1880s, was named for her. Plus I’ve been a practicing RN for close to 40 years.
Hooray for you, Nancy, and your decades of caring! Nurses rock! Go with the Flo!
And don’t forget “all blessings, Flo!”
I love Anselm and THINKING about one’s faith, but Florence was to germ theory what Maria Sybilla Merian was to disproving spontaneous generation of insects — a woman who doesn’t get the credit in history books. She probably inspired the U.S. Sanitary Commission who saved the lives of so many Union soldiers in the U.S. Civil War. Anyone who lessens mortality rates in war or prevents war gets my vote.
Regarding reforming nursing (and health care) practices during the U.S. Civil War (between the States), read about Clara Barton, another heroine in my books – who should be considered in a future Saintly bracket – but probably is not a good candidate as she was an early “spiritual but not religious” sort (deistic, creedless Universalist)
I, too, hope Clara Barton will be considered in the future. Raised int the town adjacent to mine she is a local heroine.
Had to vote for Florence for her work that is still saving lives. But I’m intrigued by Anselm and inspired to learn more about his ideas.
Agreed, Michelle!
I love Anselm’s religion that didn’t require you to leave your brain at the door and theological thinkers are important in every age, but Florence’s muscular practical faith (and the fact that we still live in her legacy) wins my vote.
The thoroughly modern slogan, “Being an Episcopalian means you don’t have to check your brains at the door” came to mind and influenced my decision to vote for Anselm – but Florence was definitely a saint, too!
Once again, the false dualism of thinker vs. doer rears its unhelpful head. Anselm was not only a thinker, but a doer. He was a skillful leader, a compassionate spiritual father to his monks, and he spoke truth to power. That’s not ivory tower, that’s action in motion.
Thank you! Now I’m leaning more toward Anselm.
Expressing her faith through love and care for others. Isn’t that what our faith is all about? Besides, she was influenced by Wesleyan ideals. As a Methodist I had to be impressed.
Hope Florence made it a habit to wear red!
As a nurse, I have to vote for Florence…
Me too! I have been a nurse for 50 years and have often thought that Florence was one of the first of us who, rather than working as a nurse, she was one 24/7. Having said that, she also was rather difficult to deal with as, I suspect, most reformers and saints, are.
It pains me not to vote for a medieval underdog, but I’m going with my old childhood hero, Florence. It comes down to theology–Florence’s universalism over Anselm’s Atonement. If we accepted the idea of universal salvation, I dare say we wouldn’t be in the political morass we’re in now.
Florence Nightingale FTW (For The Win)! I’ll take her default, all-loving and merciful God over Anselm’s default “offended” God any day.
This was a tough choice for me, however after a 27 year career in the health care field, i simply had to go withbthe woman who started it all my gal Florence.
Although my inclination is to vote for poor nearly ignored Anselm, I must join the multitudes who honor the Nightengale whose spirit cause many to soar.
“Oh, my girl, are you not now more merciful than the God you think you are going to? Yet the real God is far more merciful than any human creature ever was or can ever imagine.” Love that! Developing the practices that saved lives (and continues to save lives): priceless.
I do appreciate the formidable work of Anselm in his context, but in honor of my late mother-in-law and my late cousin, and so many living friends and parishioners who serve faithfully in the nursing profession, as well a cherished childhood memory of reading a child’s biography of her, I am voting for Florence!
As a nurse, I admire Florence Nightingale to the max! No doubt about who I voted for!
It’s pretty hard on International day of the woman not to go with Florence. Anselm’s thoughts on guilt give me pause.
Even if it wasn’t International day of the woman I would vote for the woman who was the founder of nursing!
Such a tough call.
Reading up on Florence Nightingale and realizing I share things in common with her. Definitely has my vote!
Great love for Canterbury Cathedral and respect for Anselm ..BUT,, must go with Florence Nightingale …
such an inspiration to so many young women who entered nursing because of her story….
Sister Florence gets my Woman’s Day vote!
I don’t need comments for my vote today. Florence for the win! Her nursing theories and practices are still being taught. As a retired RN she easily gets my vote. (Plus, I am not fond of Anselm’s atonement theory.)
I voted for Florence for many reasons, one being that she opened the door for women in a mans world. She had a vision that was far reaching than getting married and raising children. Of course she could have done both, however her love of our Lord and dedication to her to her passion over took the other.
Have to vote for Florence on International Women’s Day! Her expression of her faith through caring for others is a world changing idea–one we could all adopt for good!
With my vote today, I’d like to give a shout-out to my Bishop, Matt Gunter, who is the Episcopal Visitor of the Community of St. Anselm, the Archbishop of Canterbury’s new monastic community at Lambeth Palace. He’s also a public theologian, writing thoughtful reflections on difficult subjects.
The nursing profession is such dedication and for a well to do lady o give up the life of a rich family to help the sick has my vote. Nightingale.
It was tough, but I went with Anselm. These saints show us that they, like the rest of us, were flawed human beings who served God. I do have problems with Anselm’s defense of church privilege and with what I see a Florence Nightingale’s treatment of non-white nurses.
If I understand correctly, Anselm was trying to prevent the church from becoming an arm of the state. Given today’s political situation, I can only say Amen.
Florence’s widespread influence on modern medicine and public health is undeniable. But, where would her faith have been without Anselm’s “Cur Deus Homo”? She did sacrifice her life of ease for a life of service and answered her call from God. Anselm also answered his call from God and helped to bring a special light and understanding to the early church.
Nurses rule. That is all.
Both Anselm and Nightingale speak to God’s mercy, but the clear logic and compassion in the quote attributed to her speaking to the prostitute did it for me.
Thanksgiving for living Saints who nursed my husband through the cancer and his last breath. Thanksgiving for my mother, whose sore feet I rubbed after a long day at Mount Sinai Hospital.
This was a tough one. I’m a fan of both. But, my first career was as a nurse, so I voted for Florence.
Hard decision again! Florence’s “…the read God is far more merciful than any human creature ever was or can ever imagine…” almost swayed me. But I remember loving Anselm’s point of view long ago when I was first introduced to formal theology, and someone’s comment today about Anselm’s doctrine of the Trinity–and the fact that when I went to vote, he was the underdog—pushed me back to the theologian. (In spite of the difficulties his theory of the Atonement has caused.)
Tough call. I like Anselm, especially after systematics in seminary, but in honor of my daughter the nurse, Florence got my vote.
Really tough decision today! I have loads of respect for what Florence Nightingale did, after all, how can saving the physical body be diminished. However, the CoE was going through some bad times during Anselm’s day and although his thought process was “antiestablishment”, his work provided the foundation for Christian theology and discussion of theology for all ages. Tough choice!!!
Anselm is a a wonderful example to follow. Florence however is a saint that is still very visible today. When I was younger I read a biography of Florence Nightingale and almost went to nursing school. She is still one of my heroines.
My mother was a nurse, my daughter is a doctor and I belong to the Order of St. Luke, a healing ministry; so Florence Nightingale is family.
Had to vote for Florence it is international women’s day today
Had to go with Florence. She opened the door to women having the noble career of nursing. On this International Day of the Woman, I voted for Florence Nightingale.
Florence, of course. Everyone who has ever needed a nurse has been blessed to have had Florence as their nurse’s forerunner. Though Anselm is no slouch and I may have voted for him had he been up against a different opponent.
Florence Nightingale is a true saint in my eyes–she not only believed, but she acted. And the good her work has done worldwide in the intervening 150 years or so is incalculable. But she DID have a very, very human side. Read Lytton Strachey’s short profile of Florence in Eminent Victorians. It shows her in a very different light but, to be honest, her flaws make me love her even more.
The easiest vote in the history of Lent Madness, and possibly my “final choice” to the finish. I will try to keep an open mind and promise to read about all the contestants, but Florence Nightingale will be difficult to dislodge as my first choice. Yes, nursing is my profession and I’m in awe of Nightingale’s infection control statistics. I was also a member of Cassandra; Radical Feminist Nurses Network; named after Nightingale’s essay “Cassandra” on “the forced idleness of Victorian women”. Handwashing and feminism win the day.
Gloria, I had not heard about Cassandra…I will investigate! As a nurse for 30 years, I had to vote for Florence also. Her Notes on Nursing should be a must read for everyone, even if you are not a nursing student.
Voted for the underdog.
I usually vote for theologians, but had to go with Florence for many reasons–the wonderful oncology nurses who got me through treatment, her vision of purpose for women, her advancement of modern healthcare and sanitation, and it’s International Women’s Day. Nevertheless, she persisted.
Indeed, she did!
“Despite her upper-class background, Nightingale heard a call from God in 1837 to serve and care for others.” Hmm, seems to me that God calls us regardless of class! Voted for Florence for her work (despite the handicap of her upbringing :)) and becasue it is International Women’s Day!
Make that ‘because’….attempted to edit but am not able to locate that option.
I had to vote for Florence because nurses play such an important role in care and healing. One of my sisters was a wonderful nurse that died after a painful illness. There’s an expression that you write your own eulogy. Many of my sister’s patients came to celebrate her life and mourn our collective loss. My sister’s kindness and concern for the sick is a wonderful legacy.
Easy call for me. When I was in the hospital for bypass surgery, I grew to admire all my nurses for their kindness, caring, and knowledge. The daily care in the hospital after the surgery was through them, so they made the greatest impression on me. Thanks, Florence, your concern for the well-being of your patients helps all of us today.
Tough choice today, because I wrote a paper on Anselm’s educational views in graduate school. More likely though, to utilize skilled nurses these days of caregiving for my elderly mother.
I voted for Florence for International Women’s Day and also because she was a pioneer in nursing.
I voted for Anselm just because I lived in San Anselmo CA for years! That and Faith Seeking Understanding is exactly the thing I love about being Episcopalian. I don’t have to check my brain at the door to the sanctuary.
I love Anselm’s faith seeking understanding, but can’t believe how often we accept his writings about the cross as a way to deal with a divine grudge against us. No doubt we fail, but God’s forgiveness is not an equation. As Florence said so beautifully to the prostitute in her weakness, God’s above that stuff. As a priest who sees the work of many nurses on my visitations to the sick, I celebrate Florence today. Faith seeking understanding by doing and being there for others.
Amen!
Totally with you, Gary! Good to see you on here.
I agree with you, Paul. I can’t buy Anselm’s view of a petty, nasty, vindictive and vengeful God. Substitutionary atonement is an extremely problematic theory. So, it’s Florence Nightingale for me.
I admire Florence Nightingale, but voted for Anselm as she died apostate
Florence had some unorthodox beliefs, but she was a Christian and an Anglican all her life. In the latter part of her life, when she was housebound due to her illness, the parish priest brought Communion to her regularly.
Florence Nightingale, in honor of my sister, a nurse.
Anselm is a towering theological figure. He is a superstar of the Middle Ages and all ages. His effect upon the history of the church is far reaching. Therefore, he gets my vote. I have to admit, I learned things about Florence that I never knew. Very amazing person, for sure. However, her universalism bothers me. After Jesus showed grace to the woman caught in adultery by defending her against her chauvinistic persecutors ( It takes two to commit adultery, right) he said to her. “Go and sin no more”, thereby holding the grace of God and the holiness of God in perfect tension.
Atonement needs a little help these days; Our Lady of the Autoclave gets maybe a little more hoop-la than necessary.
In my view, Anselm’s atonement theory is too problematic to count in his favor. Soooo… Florence it is!
I was quite impressed with Anselm’s theological thinking, but after months of hospital visits for both my mother and stepfather since December, I am more aware than ever of the impact of Florence. Nurses are heroes, the true backbone of medical care. When you have a good nurse, you are going to make it. When you do not, your days are miserable and hopeless. Thank you, Florence, for your mercy, kindness and contribution to the world. Not to mention that it’s International Women’s Day, and this is a woman to honor also for what she did for other women in both her time and through the centuries since.
I was divided on this one. Both deserved to win. Florence on the sweeping changes that she spearheaded and Anselm for his theory that only God could provide the perfect sacrifice through His son.
I voted for Anselm as a tribute to the professor who introduced me to Anselm: Marilyn McCord Adams. Unfortunately, Marilyn is now ill. I hope she and/or her husband, Bob Adams, might see this and be cheered. If the Adamses touched your life, I suggest you vote for Anselm as a way to thank them.
I voted for Florence because it is International Women’s Day, and I’m sure she would be leading a march and reminding everyone to wash their hands.
Her faith was motivated by her love and caring for others. And, she shared her knowledge of sanitation with the world. Go, Flo!
What a difficult choice today. The woman who invented the nursing profession or the man who gave us the Ontological Proof of the Existence of God. Who made the most significant contribution?
As the mother of a nurse, I am proud to vote for Florence.
Voted for Florence for her dedication to the care and healing of all God’s children and her trust in universal reconciliation. Did not vote for for Anselm because of Cur Deus Homo.
This election is rigged! You put a trailblazing woman up against a male Doctor of the Church on International Women’s Day – a guaranteed loss for Anselm, who’s my favorite saint-other-than-Francis. No fair!
Voting for Anselm. While Nightingale might have done more in the health field and if this was for the Nobel Prize I would vote for her, Anselm has done more to advance theology. I believe Lent Madness should reward the advancement of Theology.
Had to vote for Florence
Have been a nurse for 45 years.
I know what impact she made
Thank God she got the recognition she deserved in a male dominated world of her tome
Anyone who would willingly enter a war zone to provide health care to the wounded is the saintly winner. Florence Nightingale, for all nurses!
May the spirit of Florence Nightingale guide those making decisions to improve our health care.
Amen!
Apples vs oranges, indeed! Both deserve to win in their own realm! Trying to look down from 10,000 feet, I chose Anselm. But Florence is awesome, too.
Florence Nightingale. I have real quarrels with Anselm’s theology. i have a different understanding of the Cruxifiction. And I think Anselm led directly into the hell fire brimstone school of preaching, and a religion based on fear and crushing guilt.
Loved the vignette of Nightingale with the prostitute. It is the opposite of Anselm.
My sympathies greatly lie with Anselm, being a thinker in an age when thinking was greatly undervalued (an age that we seem to be returning to now). However, he just can’t compete with Florence Nightingale’s actions.
I’m amazed at the disparity in the voting, even as I contribute to it–my vote goes to Florence in honor of my mother, who reared 5 kids, nursed a gravely ill husband for years, and THEN went to school and became an RN and Hospice nurse. She was the daughter and mother of doctors, too. Nurses are heroes.
Also (this is sad and petty), the portrait of Anselm looks like a watermelon with a head. First impressions…
I scrolled back up to look at Anselm’s portrait, and you’re right—watermelon with a head. It didn’t influence my vote, since I had already voted for Nightingale. Thanks for giving me a laugh!
I thought this would be a close race. But, I have to vote for Florence since I was a dietitian for forty-five years and
We were taught in school she was the first dietitian as well!
A woman revolutionizing health care in a war zone – on International Women’s Day, and as a nurse, this vote was easy.
Had to be FloNi on International Women’s Day.
I was divided, too. I voted for Anselm because hearing his saying, “faith seeking understanding” in theology class at the age of 50, my life suddenly made sense. However, I did choose Florence for my bracket because she’s done so much as Christ’s hands and feet in the world. And I figured she would beat Anselm, lol.
I was reading Wikipedia on Anselm, and I can’t help but wonder how we would think if we were able to approach his atonement theory through fresh eyes rather than through the degeneracy of his interpreters.
It seems like his theory could have been good news to people of his day that labored under the delusion that they themselves had to appease an infinite justice. Anselm is saying to them: Chill out, God’s got this.
Also, since he was opposed to tri-theistic notions, it would seem possible that his view of the Trinity would stand in stark opposition to the depraved imaginations of his successors that posit a sadistic father taking it out on his hapless son.
Thanks, Mr. Gilbert. Your comment encourages me to delve into Anselm and get a deeper taste of his theology. But I voted for Florence — she saved lives without worrying about how sinful her patients might be.
Where would we be without the courageous Florence Nightengale?
Florence is the grandmother of the modern deaconate. She took her training at a German school for deaconess before beginning her work in England.
My vote was for Florence
My grandmother was named after Florence Nightengale.
As a former nurse and one who has been greatly influenced by Wesleyan ideals, I voted for Florence Nightingale.
The choice of Nightingale was easy for me. I did not consider voting for Anselm because I think his atonement theory has done more harm than good. Besides her magnificent work in nursing and public health, which still has positive influence today, Nightingale had, in my opinion, a truer idea of the nature of God than Anselm had. This is shown in her words of comfort to the prostitute. Too many people believe in a god who is even more narrow and vicious than they are.
I did vote for Florence, was not my plan going into it but the piece written about Anselm of Canterbury was difficult to understand for some reason.. just me I guess, but I usually love the way the descriptions are written so as everyone can understand and have their say . Enjoying Lent Madness as always, look forward to it each day.. Keep up the wonderful work 🙂
Still mourning the lovely Saint Cecilia. Alas.
I admire Anslem but gotta go with Flo.
Poor Anselm. Up against Florence Nightingale on international women’s day. Yep – she’s got my vote too.
I first learned about Florence Nightingale through a 1951 film “The Lady with a Lamp,” starring Anna Neagle, but a few years later I read Lytton Strachey’s acidulous portrait of her in “Eminent Victorians.” The latter turned me off on her almost completely, but over the decades, as I have come to know more and more about her, she has risen in my estimation, chiefly because she practiced a rational faith based solidly on an understanding and acceptance of natural science: “The voice of statistics is the voice of God” may be the best statement of this attitude ever made. Her creation of modern health care practice has benefited millions, if not billions, of people around the world. Anselm, not so much. Brilliant but flawed theologian, with lots of nice people and institutions named after him, but that’s about it. So of these two very dissimilar saints born in what is or was Italy, I remain soundly in the camp of the Lady with the Lamp! (Couldn’t resist ending with that cheer–clap yo’ hands on SOUND, CAMP, LAY, and LAMP!)
I appreciate Florence’s admonition “not only to heal, but to bless.” One of the challenges of modern health care is to be sure we do both. Florence reminds us that when we are ill both the body and the soul need TLC.
I really thought I was going to vote for Anselm, because a medieval philosopher appealed to me and because I assumed that Nightingale would get the “popular vote.” I was going to try to support the “ancient” saint this time. But I found myself troubled by the Cur Deus Homo doctrine. It seemed like Pilate Pontius’ argument writ large: one man should die for the sins of others. And I balked. And then was swept away by Florence Nightingale’s answering a Call and at the same time employing scientific method. I was charmed. And she was a Wesleyan! and merciful. To me she represents the best of Victorianism. I remember last year the nuns who fought yellow fever were quite the belles of the Lent Madness ball. I wonder if Florence Nightingale might not be likewise (and justly) popular this year. Well, I will help fill her dance card. I will give my vote to Florence Nightingale. And ask for this waltz.
Groggy with sleep. Of course meant Pontius Pilate.
As nurse with a BSN and a Mater s of Theological Studies from VTS, how can I not not for my hero in both nursing and acting out her theology in her work caring for the sick and wounded? Go Florence!
What an easy choice, and how appropriate that Florence is a contender on International Women’s Day! (Did the SEC plan this?) Also, my mom is a nurse, so GO FLO!
International Women’s Day! Florence, of course!
Anselm of Canterbury “discovered” karma, in typical Western fashion: thousands of years after a lot of browner people had always known about it.
Florence Nightingale actually did something new for Christianity: suggested that God is more compassionate than his extremely unkind followers. She also improved the lot of women in Western society.
Florence should win it all! What a difference she made to our world!
On Women’s Day how could I not vote for Florence! I also like her theology!
I voted for Florence because when she comforted theprostitue I thought that was so amazing so I voted for her
Today is a day when women are not to spend money. Today is when women are supposed to act in ways that indicate to a chauvinistic world their value. So, I voted for the woman!
Just reading up and there was much I didn’t know about Florence Nightingale. I was leaning toward academia, but her spiritual caring bought tears to my eyes. Florence it is!
My first year of Nursing School (when dinosaurs roamed the earth) I was cast in a production of “Florence Nightingale, This Is Your Life!”. Suffice it to say between that and the ensuing 3 plus decades of practice, Nightingale it is today. Yesterday my Canadian self was swayed, and now it’s Forence. I have to add though that while still holding Anselm with esteem, penal substitutionary atonement theory doesn’t make my soul sing.
For Anselm of Canterbury and Florence Nightingale
(Tune: Woodlands – Hymnal ’82, 438 or Birmingham – Hymnal ’82 437)
Tell out our souls, the wonders of God’s saints.
Make known their deeds and their humanity.
Their lives proclaim a call to love and serve;
Through words and deeds that make our hearts rejoice.
Anselm was kind to those within his care.
Not fond of royal powers he’d not be swayed.
His thoughts of God were logical but stern.
Yet he proclaimed, through Christ our debt is paid.
Seeing great need, not wealth or social norms
Could keep this woman from her holy call.
Dirtied her hands in blood and muck and filth;
Saved lives, gave hope, she surely gave her all.
Very nice!
Finally! Diane gives us the hymn du jour!
I think we have to remember that Anselm was writing in opposition to the Ransom theory of Atonement, which I like a lot, but does lead to the danger of setting up Satan as a co-equal actor.
I can’t imagine that Anselm could have seen infinite justice and infinite mercy in opposition to each other, and I highly doubt that he saw infinite justice and infinite mercy appearing sequentially. I suspect that for him the two were complementary and simultaneous.
Once again, I’d like to think that for Anselm’s contemporaries, his theory of atonement was good news about God, and that it could be for us today if we had the imagination and empathy to approach him without the filter of his degenerate successors.
I like the phrase “degenerate successors.” Somewhat anxious though if you are including us. We are trying to hard to get to Canterbury. I can well imagine it applied to Renaissance popes though.
Love the unintentional irony of Florence on International Women’s Day, and all that she did for women. A faithful pioneer. Besides which, cleanliness is next to godliness!
I appreciate the theology of Anselm, and his bravery in standing up to royalty. But as I am an ill former nurse, Nightingale has my sympathy. I’m in awe that much of her work was done during the decades when she was unable to leave her bedroom due to serious illness.
In honor of International Women’s Day, I voted for Florence Nightingale and her indefatigable spirit of service. I pray the health care so worked and advocated for is never compromised!
Florence Nightingale is an example of the Gospel in action. Plus, the Florence Nightingale museum in London is utterly fascinating. Go, girl: International Women’s Day.
In spite of it being International Women’s Day, and as a huge admirer of Florence Nightingale (I assume that her invention of the pie chart will come up in another round), I have cast my vote for Anselm. In an age where thinking is under threat, we need to stand up for those who think clearly and beautifully to address the issues of their day as Anselm did. We should not hold Anselm responsible for what later interpreters did to his thought. I am also drawn to him because of the lovely relationship he had with the young monks in his charge. (And much as I admire Florence, I do have concerns about her treatment and acceptance of nurses of other races.)
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Amen. I’m not impressed (and am turned off by) those voting for Nightingale because it’s International Women’s Day. Let’s put Rowan Williams in the bracket in the future on International Vacillation Day and watch him win the Golden Halo.
Florence brought mercy and kindness amid the horrors of war. Anselm, however prayerfully he thought through his theology, left us heirs to substitutionary atonement, and the church has been digging out from under the psychological harm that that induces for a millennium or more. GO, FLORENCE!
Anselm the Resistor died on Spy Wednesday?! (And the relics disappeared in a fire. Riiight — sounds like a conspiracy theory to be investigated forthwith.) How can Anselm NOT be the patron saint of Lent Madness 2017?
Oh, Supreme Executive Committee, we need liking, loving, laughing and the occasional “Oh, pleeeese” buttons for the comments. They’re such fun to read, but attaching a comment is sometimes more what we (I) really want to do. 🙂
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My Mom was a nurse and I have great respect for these dedicated caregivers. Thank you, Florence, for your gifts.
one good quote does not a winner make! tho it is a good one.
I like the ‘lead by example’ and am going with Flo
Both are huge winners in my book. Now I simply need to research more on Proslogian and Cur Deus Homo.
International Women’s Day. Wearing red. “Go Flo!” (Also easier to chant than “Go Anselm!”)
On International Women’s Day? Florence, of course. And my Mom and 2 Aunts and 2 cousins were nurses.
I just found out about the hymn being written each day for the saintly pairing. I love today’s hymn. Thank you Diana!! Now I have to go back and look at the others…
Anselm needs more votes
It’s the International Day of the Women… I had to go with Florence.
Today is National Women’s Day. I voted for Florence.
I voted for Florence, but too bad she didn’t also advocate for those dying of hunger in Ireland.
Do the bloggers also write the Collects?
They are well written.
Love Flo-Nighta and all she did and stands for, but I had to go with Anselm, who oughta be the patron saint of youth Christian formation. “Faith seeking understanding.” Amen.
“Oh, my girl, are you not now more merciful than the God you think you are going to? Yet the real God is far more merciful than any human creature ever was or can ever imagine.”
A) International Women’s Day
B) my sister DD is a nurse
C) my Aunt Dena was a nurse
D) in the 50’s and 60’s when my dad was diagnosed with MS and confined to a wheelchair, my mom, with no high school degree, supported our family of 8 by working as a nurses’ aide (back then it pretty much meant carrying bedpans for 8+ hours a day)
E) Flo’s response to the prostitute was radical in that time and exemplifies pastoral care in any time.
F) I’m a hand washing freak
G) I’ve always struggled with Anselm’s theology of atonement.
ERGO – GO FLO!
On International Women’s Day how could I not vote for Florence Nightingale? Besides, I’m pretty sure she was a deacon at heart!
I love “Faith seeking understanding.” But Florence Nightingale saved so many lives with her practical wisdom. Lots easier to understand her logic.
My vote is for Florence Nightingale as a tribute to all the wonderful and dedicated nurses I have known and loved in my lifetime: Josephine, Elizabeth and my own dear daughter Elizabeth.
I applaud Nightingale’s belief in universal reconciliation.
Thanks, Anna Fitch Courie for a beautiful collect for F. N. as well as nurses everywhere.
As a RN for many years I had to vote for Florence. We owe so much to her legacy. I am glad she answered God’s call. We all should listen for that.
Ps: Flo was wealthy and could have sat home eating bonbons but instead went out and got her hands dirty. Really dirty
I’m all in favor of Benedictines and theologians, and have no doubt that Anselm himself was a holy man, and one of moderation and mercy. But the Anselmic theory of Substitutionary Atonement has been distorted and abused in such a way as to cause incalculable mischief in Western Christianity. It is behind the entire conservative evangelical world view that “Jesus had to die on the cross to satisfy the wrath of God against our sins. Since … nobody deserves heaven without Jesus’ sacrifice, that means that God’s moral standards must be defined in such a way that basically decent people who aren’t Christian deserve to be tortured forever. The result is that God appears to be the infinitely picky, uncompromising school principal of the universe.” (Morgan Guyton)
I suspect Anselm himself would be horrified at the effects of his doctrine, but there it is, and if the alternative to him today is Florence Nightingale with her vision that “the real God is far more merciful than any human creature ever was or can ever imagine,” I’m gonna do my small bit to lift that up.
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Flo for sure. My daughter is a nurse, her best friend and mine is one, my granddaughter is going into the medical field, on her journey, now is an emt, going for a paramedic, then a pa. It’s comforting to have them in my life. I volunteer in a hospital and know and see how caring they all are.
I discovered Florence in my public school library in the second grade. She was my first hero and personal saint. I have her winning the Golden Halo.
Being a nurse I had to go with Florence, but really liked what the writer chose to say about her. We know so much about her nursing but little about the role her faith played in her profession. To me, nursing is a healing ministry. Anselm was a great theologian, but unfortunately he’s up against a powerful woman!
Having studied Anselm when a philosophy major, I had to vote for Florence. Sorry.
I voted for Florence in honor of the nurses in my family, which includes my daughter.
My voting this year seems driven by men and women whose actions puts feet to their faith.
From the Penguin edition of The Prayers and Meditations of St Anselm, an excerpt from Prayer for Enemies:
Tender Lord Jesus,
let me not be the cause of the death of my brothers,
let me not be to them
a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence.
For it is more than enough, Lord,
that I should be a scandal to myself,
my sin is sufficient to me.
Your slave begs you for his fellow slaves,
lest because of me they offend
against the kindness of so good and great a lord.
Let them be reconciled to you and in concord with me,
according to your will and for your own sake.
Thanks for this prayer.
Beautiful. Thank you for posting this.
It has to be Florence – I don’t know enough about Anselm to comment on his theory of Substitutionary Atonement as first pronounced, but the distortions of it continue to cause theological problems to this day!
Reconciliation ministry in the 19th century! I just love that about Florence Nightingale.
This pairing was SO not fair!
I nominated Anselm of Canterbury, because I went to Saint Anselm College, and am a great admirer of him.
But I studied NURSING!
Making me choose between them was Not Nice.
In nursing school, we called her “Flo, Baby.” Little did we know the serious theology behind her work. Jesus commanded us to heal the sick which has become for me, much more important than the atonement “theory,” so it’s not even close. Definitely Florence Nightingale.
In honor of International Women’s Day, my vote goes to Florence. Plus, she shares a name with a great woman in my life, my maternal grandmother, Florence – known as Flossy to her friends:).
Despite the fact that Anselm was a brilliant theologian, I have trouble with the concept of substitutionary atonement, especially as propounded by theologians who came after him: rather grim and frequently gory. But Florence put her faith into action and saved countless lives by insisting on sanitary conditions in hospitals, which were even more grim and gory than Anselm’s theology. My vote goes to Florence.
Thanks, Christianne. Well said. Glad to see you here.
Glad to see you hear, Chris! I would argue that Anselm isn’t the problem (in his time). It’s what others made of it.
(Your friend from UD),
Lisa
I truly thought I would cast my vote for Anselm. His faith and understanding theology makes so much sense. However, the quote about mercy from Florence won me over! I remember being fascinated by her story when I was a young girl.
I voted for Florence. Not all saints have to be scholars and theologians. I love that she lived out her faith through her vocation. She impacted everyone for all the ages.
Saving souls vs earthly lives, what a contrast. Florence believed and began proving she could save more patients from death by caring for their basic needs—keeping them warm, clean, rested, and well-fed. Her teaching on sanitation has saved millions of lives. Hard to say how many souls Anselm saved but I am sure more than a few. Florence gets my vote with a certainty beyond certainty.
Such a tough match-up. I am probably going to go with the flawed mother of nursing and germ theory on International Women’s Day, even as I am the eternal student of Creation (and things more definable) at heart. Wishing I had more time today to treat myself by informing myself better on these two. For those also wanting to sample some of the writing on and by these two, archive.org has lots of full-text literature FOR FREE, including:
The full text of Lytton Strachey’s mocking? but grudgingly respectful? essay on Florence:
https://www.archive.org/stream/florencenighting00stra/florencenighting00stra_djvu.txt
and the full text of “Cur Deus Homo”, plus lots of letters from Anselm to his contemporaries:
https://www.archive.org/stream/curdeushomo00anse/curdeushomo00anse_djvu.txt
I am only beginning to learn how to search archives online. If anyone can send a link to the essay “Cassandra”, I would appreciate it. I cannot pinpoint it in archive.org.
Anselm… brilliant theology that has shaped us all
Florence…brilliant applied theology as a model for us all
Which comes first, the chicken or the egg….. wish I could vote for two!
I admire Anselm’s attempt to prove the existence of Godde with the kind of logic which I admire but only trust to some extent. I’m less excited about his theory of the atonement which represents a picture of Godde which I find unfortunate (I might even say abhorrent). At any rate, Nightengale’s embodied spirituality & the lives she saved encouraged me to vote for her.
I voted for Anselm out of a sense of loyalty and with great thanksgiving. I got a paper a year out of his “Ontological Argument for the Existence of God” three years in a row in college and my first two in seminary. Two or three times during that process, I actually understood it.
Was it the same paper each time? As a teacher, I must say I would frown on that!
I voted the person that had the coolest last name, it happened to be Nightingale.
I love Nightingale, but it’s crazy that it was this much of a blowout!
Despite my respect and admiration for Anselm, how can I not vote for Florence Nightingale on International Women’s Day? So, I voted for Florence, a worthy candidate for the Golden Halo this year!
Ha ha! Finally, the landslide vote is landsliding in *my* favor! (Cecilia and Henry Budd was a lot closer a match… but I was still on the losing side.)
Voted for her for what she did to advance the cause of women’s rights, btw
This sure was a tough choice! I finally decided Anselm gave us the insight to accept God’s truths on faith, and from that, Good Works such as Florence’s followed.
Who would have thought that fresh air, clean water, good nutrition and careful hand washing would do so much to prevent disease and help patients get well. Proud to call myself a Nurse along with the hundreds of thousands women and men around the world. Here’s to our Lady with the Lamp!
(First time doing Lent Madness, first post – woo hoo)
I was named Florence for my mother, who was named for her great-aunt. How could I vote for anyone but Florence Nightingale?? I once read that almost all women named Florence today have a similar pedigree, and though it’s not exactly a common name, there are enough of us to keep her memory alive. I feel privileged to be part of this blessed company and hope that she may continue all the way to a much deserved Golden Halo! (Of course, to make it to this august level, she has already succeeded beyond her wildest dreams.)
I was a nurse, and was ordained on the Feast of Florence Nightingale, proposed, in 1996. So, it’s Florence for me!
I am conflicted over the question of St. Anselm’s theology and it’s use in possible justification for the start of the Crusades; the history and research seem to be all over the board. But I have a niece who is a nurse, and a niece who is a doctor. Florence gets my vote.
Florence has long been my mortal model. The nurse in me could cast only a vote for her. The woman in me, as well. I so value her response to the prostitute.
I was all ready to vote St. Anselm since his feast day is on my birthday–but then you had to match him up against Nightingale? When I’m a total Crimean War nerd?
Ugh. Reading through all the comments to help me decide.
This one’s for the girl! Practical Christianity that redeems through loving kindness.
Yes! Love in action.
It is very fitting that Florence Nightengale leads in this mainly because this day is celebrated “Women’s Day”. I also have family members that are nurses.
I was going to go for Anselm just because Florence Nightingale gets loads of accolades anyway – and she spent the last part of her life in bed which doesn’t seem to saintly to me – but when I read that Anselm was the person who came up with the idea that God is such a stickler for the rules that not only does he insist on punishment for all sin (when Jesus told us to forgive 70 times 7) but when he (lovingly certainly) decides he doesn’t want to punish us he has to offer his own son up for punishment instead. Ie that God is in thrall to some complicated celestial formula which he cannot get out of without doing something monstrously punitive and unloving. (Ducks)
So I will be voting for the lady of the inkstained sheets and long Inquiry reports. Florrie.
I go with the “Flo”
My Great Uncle Anselm remained in Sweden when my grandparents emigrated to Canada in 1909. One of their 2 small daughters was my Auntie Selma, named after her Uncle Anselm; however, in spite of my brief nod to Anselm of Canterbury’s name, I am more grateful for the nursing profession that Florence Nightingale organized through her school of nursing and perfected by instituting sanitary practices, so she gets my vote.
Anselm defined theology for us. Florence taught us to wash our hands. I voted for Anselm.
In honor of international women’s day I voted for Florence. I did a report on her in grammar school
I also voted for Ms. Nightingale, for many of the reasons listed above by others.
She was a pioneer in health care reform and “put her money where her mouth was” by going to the Crimea. Her beliefs in universal reconciliation is a definite “plus”, particularly in relation to Anselm.
For all Anselm’s other virtues, I cannot vote for him in conscience because of his theology of substitutionary atonement. The fact that this particular view has become dominant over all other views of the Atonement over the years is tragic and, in my observation, has turned more Christians into former Christians in our own day than any other single factor (even including child sexual abuse). While Anselm’s view may be expressed sensitively by conservatives within mainstream churches, in the hands of some extreme evangelicals it can be obscene, turning a loving God into a monster.
Anyway, despite my difficulties with Anselm, my vote was cast in terms of Ms. N’s virtues. I predict now that she may still be in the running come Spy Wednesday.
Florence for me; universal reconciliation wins over penal substitutionary atonement every time!
Alas, the poor Archbishop who received a halo on Spy Wednesday 1109 will apparently not be receiving a Golden Halo 1,008 years later on Spy Wednesday 2017.
The Archbishop may have greatly impacted our theology of the Atonement, but countless lives have been saved because of Nurse Nightingale and those who follow in her occupational footsteps.
For Anna, Emily, Christine & all the other nurses I have known and those who have nursed me when ill or injured, I voted for Saint Florence of the Nurses Station.
Theology or medicine-medicine or theology? The choice is tough, but I’ll go with Florence. As a genealogist, I can’t help but think of the many descendants of those in the Crimean War who were saved by Florence’s innovative nursing skills. Hopefully some are aware of this miracle, and many are Christians.
You do make it difficult don’t you. I love St. Anselm. But I believe the works of Florence makes her worthy of my vote.
Florence was a lovely, hard-working lady who was the bright light of the Crimean War–Britain’s Vietnam.
Howsoever, the 2% mortality she is credited with is far beyond unbelievable. Moreover, her influence on the misogynistic male doctors of the era was maybe 2%. Even the work of a male physician, Dr. Joseph Lister, some years later had little impact and it took constant efforts by others to take mortality from sepsis down to under 50%.
While theologically off the mark, i’m not a fan of sin. Healing all the way. Florence!
I cannot vote today. Anselm is one of the main reasons Episcopalians do not have to park our brains at the door to the church, but Florence made such huge strides for women and health science that I cannot choose.
Florence because of what she said to the prostitute, International Women’s Day, and reducing the mortality rate during the war by sanitary practices that continue today. Florence (like Constance) would go!
While I have a huge respect for St. Anselm and almost went his way — (maybe in a different bracket match up) I was touched by reading about Florence. What Florence said to comfort the prostitute that she was aiding, and all her dedication to improving and saving the health of others. She is a wonderful example of Christian charity and devotion.
Florence was also the name of my sweet mother in law, so yet another deal breaker for me.
Have to go with Florence she made a major breakthrough on health and sanitation. In a time when we’ll to do women we’re told to sit and let the men do the work or if nursing that the doctor(a guy) knew more. Go girl!
*Pendantry Alert*
There is a typo in the intro part of this post.
It reads:
Do everyone a favor: vote once. If you’re particularly enthusiastic, get all your friends, neighbors, and even your enemies (the ones were supposed to love anyway) to cast a vote for your favorite saint. Big Lent is watching…
It should read:
Do everyone a favor: vote once. If you’re particularly enthusiastic, get all your friends, neighbors, and even your enemies (the ones we’re supposed to love anyway) to cast a vote for your favorite saint. Big Lent is watching…
I know full well that that typo is fixable! If Big Lent is really watching, Big Lent should take a moment to fix the typo.
were =/= we’re
Were is the past tense of was.
We’re is the contraction of we are.
#WordsMatter & #ApostropesMatter too!
I see the SEC has seen the error of their typing ways and have deployed the apostrophe to where it belongs.
Florence got my vote for what she has done for the medical/nursing practice and for women in general. She also demonstrates beautifully that one does not have to be a “religious” or member of clergy to fully respond to God’s calling. Too few lay saints honoured.
She is (was, and perhaps still is) acting out her baptismal ministry, as we all should. She’s a great model for that. It’s worth emphasizing that.
I did not vote for Anselm because I think we are still suffering from his idea that our sin debt was so huge that only God (Jesus) could repay such a debt. People still struggle to get out from under this idea. What a barbaric God he believed in to think that he demanded a blood sacrifice.
I voted for Florence be cause of her contributions to medicine and nursing. Being a nurse, it was a no brainer for me. Go Florence! Go Nursing!
Did you plan Nightingale’s Lent Madness debut this year for World Women’s Day? This was the toughest contest yet of the year. I finally chose Florence because she was the FIRST person to perform her service. Anselm’s contribution was seminal but he was neither the first nor the only one.
I too am deeply disturbed by atonement theory. I cannot vote for the person who launched this on the world, even if his original thoughts have been distorted. It sure doesn’t hurt that his opponent is the awesome Florence Nightingale. Her comment to the prostitute about God’s mercy clinched it!
Whoa! So many comments today! Anselm is important, and we need thinkers who can try to put into words the beliefs most of us, certainly myself, need faith for, yet they try, and often succeed using philosphy and logic to carify what can be so confusing for me to explain. Yet, how could I deny my vote to Florence who was such a pioneer for women, health, and sanitary conditions. The fact that she did this with love and faith in her heart makes her a saint in my book!
I hated to see these two paired against each other. Their relevance and influence in different ways are both important in Christian living. I had a difficult time in voting but did go for Nightingale. Still I hold Anselm in high esteem.
I voted against Anselm for the many problems I have with his sustitutionary atonement theory. I also admire Florence as a nurse who argued with the doctors and, finally, got them to admit she was right. I’m having surgery later this week and it would not be near so safe without the efforts of Florence Nightingale
As so often it seems the SEC selects the initial matchups to force us to consider contributions to the Church itself as against actions that move society in directions considered consistent with the Gospel.
Life puts us in these positions too.
No, Anselm’s most well-known beliefs have caused us trouble for a millenium now. I appreciate his other efforts and I vote this time for the mercy that served the wounded two centuries ago and the practices that continue to save lives today. Florence!
My name is Zoey and I am six. I voted for Florence nightingale because I like how she was rich but chose to do good work and Gods instead by becoming a nurse.
This is a choice? Substitutionary atonement to appease a vengeful God vs. universal reconciliation with a merciful God? Florence gets my vote easily.
We’ll said. Thanks.
I voted for Florence. Always wanted to be a nurse. She was one of my childhood heroes. Never made it to nursing; but was a home health aide, so I did get to, in a lesser sense, take care of the sick. She was right out there, helping as Jesus would. I especially loved her reply to the prostitute. I have often thought that, when people talk about being tortured in hell. I’d think, could YOU do that to people? If YOU couldn’t, how can God, who loves us with a love far beyond our understanding? Florence Nightengale…a great blessing in this world.
What’s not your like about Florence, but I still had to vote for Anselm. His philosophy has been important to our understanding of God, and he was a strong champion of the church in days when secular rukers often tried to interfere.
In honor of my daughter-in-law, Brittany Hilton Marvin, R.N., I humbly vote for Florence Nightingale, “The Lady with the Lamp.” Providing Tender Loving Care (TLC), especially at night, is the service of Christ.
I think I recall hearing that Florence N. wasn’t voted for inclusion into Episcopal official commemorations several times but I don’t remember exactly why. Glad she won today.
This last weekend the keynote speaker at my Diocesan Convention was Chaplain Becca Stevens, the founder of Magdalen House and Thistle Farms in Nashville, Tennessee. Magdalen House offers two years’ free housing and support to women who are victims of sex trafficking, and Thistle Farms gives them employment so that they can support themselves after graduating the program.
Given Florence Nightingale’s support of London prostitutes, I just had to vote for her.
In honor of Florence, google Thistle Farms and support them.
Thanks for this shout for Thistle Farms, Paul.
I’m going with the Flo……..
Both of these holy people are known for promoting understanding – understanding of the Incarnation and understanding of our own bodies and healing. Two things tipped me over to Florence Nightingale (besides that she has the same first name as my grandmother): 1) this being International Women’s Day, and 2) her promotion of universal reconciliation, especially to people on their deathbeds. That is true Christian charity.
I may be cast into outer darkness for saying this. But I am troubled by how many people say they are voting for a saintly candidate because she is a woman … or because she is African American … or because he is First Nations.
As a woman, I wonder, how would we respond if a white man said he was voting for one of the brackets because the saint was a man? Would we call him sexist?
How do we deal with our biases? Are some biases deemed ok and others not?
I don’t know the answer, but some of the comments through this Lent Madness season have made me ponder this question.
Mind you, I’m a bleeding heart liberal. But I am finding some of the biases here troubling.
There is a difference between bias in favor of one’s own group, and choosing to favor a marginalized or underrepresented group. The former is personal preference; the latter is structural redress.
This is a good twitter thread that discusses the difference: https://twitter.com/sarahmei/status/838446409003118592
Also, one of the things I like about Lent Madness is that there is such a variety of reasons for people to vote for a saint, from the sublime to the banal, and there is no wrong reason, really. After all, the saints already have their crowns in heaven! So if a white man said he was voting for a saint because he was a white man, well, I’d class that as “voted for the saint I can most identify with” — nothing wrong with that! 🙂
Oops. I voted twice – but it happened by mistake. (I voted, was out for the evening, came home intending to check whether Anselm had made a last-minute surge in votes, and was surprised to see that my browser opened to the “vote” page instead of showing totals. Had I clicked on the “show totals” button earlier, and never voted at all? So I voted – or tried to – and got flagged.)
I have to go with Florence Nightingale in honor of our current turmoil over health care and in honor of all who are called to the nursing profession. They are all saints in my book. I also have problems with that whole substitutionary atonement thing.
You realize it’s the “Day Without Women” events. We have to support a woman on this day! and with the ACA on the chopping block, her relevance is even more important.
For most of my life I’ve had problems with the Penal Substitution Theory of Atonement, to which Anselm made a substantial contribution. Florence wins my vote for her more thansubstantial contribution to healing.
I’m with you, Elaine. How could I pass up the chance to vote against Penal Substitution Theory?! 😉
I voted for Flo.. I am biased toward love in action. I appreciate all the comments in general but especially those on Anselm. I had a negative reaction to him at first but from the comments have more appreciation now .. especially for faith seeking understanding. After all it is this love I feel for God that keeps me moving forward and seeking an understanding I can live with.
As a retired hospital and hospice chaplain, and firm believer in God’s mercy, I had to cast my vote for Florence Nightingale.
As I vote, i wish i could actually meet these saints.
I believe one day we all will at the great feast & eternal party that is called Heaven.
Lent Maddness is my number uno! So much so it’s not posted early enough. The wonderful story’s of people I’m learning about is very intriguing. I have voted for every person that has won. So, now I will read the people posted in the a.m. and think about it through the day. That evening, I’ll reread and vote. Just to see if I may change my mind.
Anselm was defiantly a genius. His philosophy was incouraging. Although I looked up words in this artical I still enjoyed it. He also defended his church!
Florence loved God, took care of people, taught skills of cleanliness, cared for and prayed with a prostitute.
My mom and step mom are nurses. (You got my vote ) AND OLIVER, I agree!
Look forward to tomorrow!
I found St. Anselm most interesting, but I had to vote for Florence because I spent three years at Florence Nightingale Junior High School in my youth.
I am deeply offended at Cecilia’s bumping – “unfair!” And on the eve of International Women’s Day, no loss.
My mom was a nurse – I now tao Forence Nightingale the Next “Golden Hali” recipient.
I’m with Florence Nightingale because she helped the sick and is a girl. not many girls are noted.
It isn’t “either… or” in my opinion. There are many different ways of being a saint, and these two saints exemplify two of the ways. Are you the Amber for whom we once bound a book at Maumont?
What’s not to like about Florence, but I still had to vote for Anselm. His philosophy has been important to our understanding of God, and he was a strong champion of the church in days when secular rukers often tried to interfere.
Though my tendency is toward the heady stuff, I’m voting Nightingale. I’m fiding my pattern for this season’s is voting is toward may perception of the steeper slope, my imagined moments of utter chutzpa in the face of an obviously easier choice.
That, and Anselm didn’t account for the inevitable abstraction humanity does to ideas… texts, music, you name it. He wrote. A lot. He didn’t go back and clarify at all. I fail at that, too, and I’m working on that. There’s something that harkens selfishishness about sitting there thinking, getting your own ideas out. Maybe he just needed a few more years to sort things through.
Nightingale would have brought chicken noodle soup to Anselm when he had a head cold. I can’t say the reverse would have been true.
Too late to vote but glad Florence won, she did a lot to save the lives of soldiers and she is the Leader for Nurses.